Make Marketing Suck Less

Michelle:    Natalie, welcome to the Rebel Rising Podcast. I'm so glad you're with us.

Natalie:    I'm so thrilled to be here, as well.

Michelle:    I'm especially excited to have you on right now, because we've hit an unprecedented time in our lives, in our economy, in our world. And you are, well I loved what you said right before the show. You're a leading learning in how to get paid by being you.

Michelle:    Buy before we start it…

I want you just to introduce yourself to our audience, and also just tell me how are you doing these days?

Natalie:    Well, yeah. Great question. So, Natalie. I'm here down under in New Zealand, and at the time of this recording, we are about 24 hours away from going into lockdown, thanks to COVID-19. So if you're listening to this recording then, this is the timing.

I feel really grateful and fortunate to have a business that is all online, that can be run from anywhere from a laptop and a wifi connection. It's brilliant. I've been working from anywhere for around 10 or 11 years. So this is nothing new to me, but it seems surprising now that so few people have, currently, in this climate, have experienced it before.

So I'm actually excited about that being one of the positives that comes out of this pandemic is this ability for people to realize how they can take opportunities from that. And to look at their careers, and to look at their potential businesses as side hustles. And look at what is possible, because there's always opportunity that comes from crisis.

Natalie:    And essentially, for the last 10 years I've been a content creator, a podcaster like you, an author, a speaker, a blogger, a vlogger, and created digital products, courses, all sorts of good, online offerings. Or great online offerings, I'd hope. Teaching people how to build an online business, and more recently how to get paid to be you.

Natalie:    So, in terms of what I do, this is probably hopefully really, highly relevant to listeners today. 

And also, how I'm feeling is a great question. And I love that you asked it, rather than how are you doing? Because we're human beings at the end of the day. So, how I'm feeling is I waver. Right now, I'm definitely wavering, depending on what news sources I read. And which people I speak to. But on the whole, once I get over my jet lag from being in Australia for a few days, and being back home, which I'm very grateful for in New Zealand, I'm feeling like I really want to show up and be that leading learner and help as many people as possible. And create some more opportunities for them in this time. And give them, basically, hope and the tools and the methods to be able to get paid to be them.

Michelle:    I love it. I love it.

Michelle:    So, you wrote a really excellent blog post that I'm going to link up, and it's also a podcast, as well. I'll link it up into our show notes. About the 12 ways to get paid to be you, even during a crisis or a recession.

Michelle:    And, I want to take this personal first.

So, what are you doing right now to navigate this uncertain time?

Natalie:    Yeah. Great question. So, ironically, a couple of days or even just a week before all of this really, really hit the storm, it's only a season. And I had actually just launched a book crowdfunding campaign. Because I was totally intending this time, knowing that it would probably get worse, to write my next book. And I wanted this third book to be much more about personal growth, personal development, much more personal stories. Some hilarity to it, some sort of a kick ass, gentle style that I have with my clients and customers.

Natalie:    So it's called "Suck It Up, Princess." And I launched that literally about a week ago. And I was like, "Wow, is the timing terrible? Or good?" And this is just a really interesting question for all of us right now, as I think a lot of people are grappling with. 

Is this a good time, or not, to launch this thing or put out this offer, or step into learning new skills, or start a new business?

Natalie:    And I really do feel that the answer to that is yes, this is a perfect time. Because people now, more than ever, are seeking to learn. They are seeking distractions in a good way, I think. They're like, "Okay, great. How can I up-skill? Re-skill, maybe? If my potential job is on the line, if my business is not as stable as I thought, if I want to add more revenue streams in?"

Natalie:    So therefore, if people are wanting to learn a new skill, and you have those to teach, which I'm sure everybody does. In fact, I'm certain of it. You have experience, skill sets, and package that into a way that helps people to learn what you know and you may take the ground up. We can go into this more.

Natalie:    And so, I think now is a great time for people to be putting together short mini-courses, planning live webinars or workshops, putting out their services to offer people coaching or consulting or strategy sessions, or whatever it may be that's sort of in your wheelhouse. And I think now, more than ever, we also need to do this just to help the economy. If people are buying from other people and supporting local businesses, online businesses, it means everybody wins.

Natalie:    So I think the people who are sitting there going, "Oh, I feel bad about selling," or, "I feel icky about doing this," I'm like, "No, just look at how this will effect everybody worldwide, if we're able to support each other during this time." Does that make sense?

Michelle:    Yeah. I think you know, one of the things that strikes me as you're talking, I think one of the worst things we can do is hoard our money.

Natalie:    Yeah.

Michelle:    Right?

Natalie:    Yeah. I was listening to Denise Duffield-Thomas this other day, you know the Money Mindset Mentor.

Michelle:    I love her. Yes.

Natalie:    She's awesome right? And she was like, "I've just spent $6,124." And I was like, "Oh, go you." But she was like, "People were sharing, they were offering up discounts. Everybody was supporting each other by buying each other's courses." She was like, "Sure, maybe I don't need all of them right now, but if I can help and I can leverage my money, then I can do that there." And I just thought that was such a neat way of looking at it is like, right now, if everybody's doing this, how can we all support and jump on board? And use our money appropriately?

Natalie:    Because as you know, whatever you give always comes back to you. If you're generous, it comes back to you in droves. And it also makes you feel good to be supporting people right now who might potentially need your money more than you. Even if you feel like, "Oh my gosh, I've really got to save it," or, "I'm worried." This is a time, I think, where there's more opportunities than ever to, I would say, make wise investments, and also make more money for yourself, and then be able to, once again, re-invest what you're making in net form of abundance.

Natalie:    So, if there's this beautiful, cyclical aspect, then I think it makes it easier to grasp.

Michelle:    Yes. Yes. And I think... I love also that you were touching on our use of creativity during this time. Like what else can I offer? Can you tell us more about what we should be thinking about, and what should we be asking ourselves as we kind of re-evaluate what we're selling and what we're offering, and what we're putting out there?

Natalie:    Yeah. So, in terms of, I guess, evaluating ourselves, it's really looking at right now, what is most important to you, and also do you think is most important to others?

Natalie:    So, in the context of that, as I said, I've got this book campaign now, and what I am going to start in April, right on my birthday actually, is helping people write their damn book. So I've taken something that was going to be more personal for me, and I've decided, "Hey, what if other people want to come along for the ride?" I've got the skills, two times best-selling, published. But I know enough to be dangerous. I've self-published, I've traditionally published, I've hybrid-published, I can help people do this, and I feel like they have more time than ever right now. And I do feel it's really important to get your message out into the world, to write that book. And from a book comes so many other potential offerings, courses, teaching, etc.

Natalie:    And right now it may seem like that's the last thing in the world that's going to happen, but we have to think ahead three months, six months, nine months, 12 months, two years, when people are starting to recover from this, how helpful whatever you're doing right now is going to be for them in the future.

Natalie:    So I've kind of just been doing a bit of an audit of what I currently have on hand. What courses have been sort of sitting there that I don't talk about anymore that could be refreshed right now, that I could do a huge discount on, or that I could package into a membership. 

So I've just been looking at, right now, what do people need most from me? How can I show up and use my skills and knowledge to help them? That might even be offering some group coaching sessions, it might be some on-on-one coaching sessions, which I don't typically do anymore.

But whatever is going to help people move the needle for them right now, make them feel supported, feel safe, feel held, give them answers, give them a plan, so that they can feel a little bit of normalcy and like they're actually doing something productive and purposeful.

Natalie:    And I've seen quite a few people out there kind of like just trying to drive and push, which is, to some people, that might be the way they cope. But I just want to reiterate here, I think it's about being purposeful and using their energies for the right things, not pushing yourself into the ground and burning out trying to help too many people in all sorts of ways. It's like, what singular focus can you have for the next... And even if you block it out into the next 30 days, what's one thing that I can do, create, be, or lead with that is going to help as many people as possible? And how can I dedicate my time and energy to that, in serving those people in the best possible way? And then the next month, I can look at the next month.

Natalie:    So I think it's just about taking your resources, and your capabilities, and your capacity right now. In those days, where you're going to find it a bit harder to get out of bed, or the days where you feel a little less hopeful, and using the days when you're feeling really fired up and really purposeful, and energized, to go forth and do that work.

Michelle:    Okay. So there were so many great pieces in there. But I think that's a really great question to ask yourself. 

What can I offer in the next 30 days?

Looking at what do I have? Is there a course that I have that I haven't offered in a really long time? Can I jujj it up and make it a little bit better, and put it out at a deep discount?

Natalie:    Yeah.

Michelle:    And is there something that, yeah... Is there a consulting offer I can put out into the world that I can just focus on for the next 30 days? But you also said something about taking care of yourself. Which is something we talked a little bit about in the pre-chat that I just want to touch upon.

Michelle:    So how are you also taking care of yourself during this time?

Because you have a lot going on.

Natalie:    Yeah. I'm actually, I think it's one thing I've always prioritized in my life is self-care. Even though I've been on the burn out twice, I'm going to admit. On the verge of burnout twice. So I do daily yoga, and I've been doing yoga for several years. But since the start of this year, ironically, I chose to do it every single day. And I've only missed two days. And one of those was a day I was traveling, and one was a day that I was visiting my partner's dad in the hospital, which you know about, which just happened last week. It was the first day of arriving there, and I just didn't have quite the energy.

Natalie:    So one then, is an absolute daily practice. Along with, when possible, and I make time for it, which I certainly do now, is meditation, even if it's just short, guided meditation. I'm a huge fan of just getting out and being active, and I know when places are going down into lockdown, it seems harder. So, I just got kettle bells and some medicine balls to do some functional workout. And we're lucky where we live, we have 10 acres. So we can actually hike up into the forest. And there's literally nobody around. So I appreciate it, I'm incredibly grateful for that.

Natalie:    But I love that people are coming out with all sorts of online videos to do at-home workouts. Some jumping jacks, some ... You can do literally anything in a space of around two meters by two meters. And trust me, I've done it when I was traveling the world, in hotels, and all sorts of crazy, small spaces.

So, exercise and movement is really important for me, as well as focusing on my mind. So meditations, as I said. Journaling. I have a little routine in the morning that goes like yoga first thing, into journaling gratitudes, and then into a meditation, and then I have lemon water, because I just love it for cleansing, and then I take my supplements. And right now, I'm taking a pretty decent concoction for the immune system. Nothing over the top. Just a vitamin.

Michelle:    Yeah. Oh.

Natalie:    Because I'm vegan, apparently. And some Reishi mushroom that is awesome. Just being really smart around supplements and some daily greens. And getting good sleep. Getting good sleep, and getting some humor into your day. Whether that's joking around with my partner, or lots of cuddles with my dogs, and following their antics. Or watching some great comedy. Because laughter is one of the best forms of medicine.

Natalie:    And so, I think for people who... If you feed off other people, and you get energy from them, then making time right now, you're probably doing a Zoom course, or Skype or FaceTime, just to be able to connect with people you love is really important. But at the end of the day for me, it's about attempting to keep up this daily sort of ritual that I have, because it just gives you a little bit more certainty and all these uncertain times. And a bit of normalcy, which we, as humans, need.

Natalie:    We need Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, right? We need those base-level things. We need food, shelter, warmth, and then we need certainty, and then it goes up into uncertainty, and all those good things. But right now, I think we're at that sort of base-line of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. And we need to be really mindful of just keeping ourselves healthy and sane.

Michelle:    Yes. Yes, yes, yes. And I love the routine part of it, because I think, especially for people who are making that transition to working from home, and I know you and I have been... We're old hands with the online business thing, and working from home. So we're good with the routines, but I know so many of my friends and people who are doing the side hustle thing, and now they're home, and they're like, "I don't have a routine anymore, and I don't know what I'm doing." And I'm telling all of my friends, like, "Okay, first thing. You have got to get dressed every single day."

Natalie:    Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Michelle:    "Just to have some normalcy. And having some type of morning routine where you're taking care of yourself, whether... If you can go for a walk, go out for a walk. Move your body. Do something that feeds you and makes you feel good, because you have to take care of yourself in order to go out and create."

Natalie:    Yeah. 100%. And thank you for mentioning that. I don't even not think not to get dressed. It's such an in-built habit of me.

Michelle:    I know.

Natalie:    Every morning, after the exercise and after I shower, I get dressed as if I'm going out for the day.

Michelle:    Mm-hmm (affirmative). I do, too.

Natalie:    I'll make myself look a little better, and you feel 100%. And I'll always remember a quote from Ali Brown, from probably about eight years ago. I remember her saying this, especially if you're in a job of front pacing business, in sales. And she's like, "If you work from home, and you sit there in your pajamas, and you jump on these sales calls, and you expect to sound like a successful, productive person, you're not." And she's like, "I'm telling you. Get up in the morning, have a shower, shave, put a suit on, and then sit at your desk, even at your home, with the phone, and tell me that that doesn't make a difference."

Natalie:    And it was to a particular guy I think, at the time, and he just saw amazing results after that, because he suddenly felt more professional, more successful. And they could hear it in his voice, and he was more confident, just from dressing. Just from getting dressed.

Natalie:    So I think it's really important that you said that, because I don't know why. For me, it's a given. Of course I would. But if other people are doing the whole pajamas in bed, which is fine every so often, right?

Michelle:    Yes.

Natalie:    But if that becomes your new norm, you can't operate a really successful life and business or career from pajamas in bed. You just... I think you're deluding yourself if that's the case, even if it's super comfy. Almost like you're hiding. You've got to show up, you've got to lead, you've got to lead by example.

Michelle:    Well, I think that's the dream that people are sold. People are like, "Oh Michelle, you get to just lay around in your yoga pants and sweatshirts all day." And I'm like, "No." That was something I learned really early on, that if I didn't get dressed, if I didn't put on make-up, if I didn't leave the house regularly, I was setting myself up for failure."

Natalie:    Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Michelle:    And we have to still take care of ourselves every single day, and manage our minds, and move our bodies. Otherwise, yeah. We can't be creative, we can't show up and lead our audiences, or lead our businesses, or even lead our families, or lead ourselves.

Natalie:    100%. And while I'm also wearing activewear, because I wear it all the time, I'm also just about... This is, in times of crisis, when everything feels uncertain... It's how we think that defines us. And makes us who we are. We want to be the best. It's finding the inner strength during times when it just feels like it's escaping you. And that starts with just one tiny step at a time.

Natalie:    And even you know, like I was saying last week, everything was sort of hitting the fan. Not just in the world, but particularly with what we were going through, and it was just like, okay, what's one tiny little thing that I can do right now? And that was actually when I wrote that blog post. I'd had a terrible sleep, I had zero energy. It was when I was visiting my partner's dad in the hospital. Everything felt like...

Natalie:    And I was like, you know what? Just start writing. And interesting factor with starting to write and then researching, and then going over some of my other stuff, and then I was like oh, it came together, it actually gave me energy. It was amazing. I went from kind of like, oh, this feels like a drag, I can't do this, to oh, this is turning into effort and post, and this is giving me energy. And this is great, and this is going to help people. It was just amazing, actually, to see that change. But it all started just from that one step of opening the blog post.

Michelle:    Yeah.

Natalie:    And having to write a few words. Quite honestly. So if people have seen me going, "But how?" It's like, start with just... For the next five minutes, I'm just going to write something or for the next five minutes I'm just going to do a little video. Or for the next five minutes, I'm going to read something useful. And it really goes from tiny steps to big leaps.

Michelle:    Yes. Yes. And I love that you said that, because I think sometimes we can just get inundated with the news or the negativity, or just the scroll on Facebook or Twitter, Instagram, whatever. And it's just like removing yourself from that, and opening up the documents and just taking the tiny step to write, to create something, to even look up a course that you haven't done anything with in 100 years, and being like, "Okay, what can I do with this? 

What is possible for me here?"

Natalie:    Yep. Absolutely.

Michelle:    What is possible to create?

Natalie:    Yeah. Yes. I love that.

Michelle:    Yeah.

Natalie:    What is possible? Just all the possibilities. Beautiful.

Michelle:    Yes. Yes, yes, yes.

Natalie:    And also, I just want to say about rituals and morning routines to really help you get started with a great day, regardless. The second thing I would add to that is... We all do it. Do not start by picking up your phone or terrible news sources or posts from your friends who are worried. That is the single worst way to start the day. And I did it a few times and it just depressed me. And on the days that I did, I felt like ... with what I had, the optimism that I had, the ideas that I had, the things that I wanted to do, and I had a entirely different... The opportunities, and what possibility awaits. Versus straight away being distracted by the things.

Natalie:    And I'm not saying avoid reality, because it's very real right now. But be mindful of at which point in the day do you check in on those things and check in on people. So having really clear boundaries around your energy and space.

Michelle:    Yes. Yes. I have certain rules with my husband, because my husband loves Twitter, and I'm like, "You can't send me so many tweets, honey. I just can't. I just can't during the day. It's not good for my productivity."

Natalie:    No. Yeah. 100%. I agree. And so, I think that it's just really, really important. If you have well-meaning friends and family just say, "I do appreciate news if it's from great sources." For me, it's just the World Health Organization and the government sites right now, pretty much. But even if you just set boundaries with your friends and family. "Hey, I won't be online until 11 a.m.," for example. "Just so you know, if you're trying to contact me during these times, everything's okay." And use that time to do, as I said, your journaling, your writing, your reading. Working on something important. So you just block out those hours and carve them out for you.

Natalie:    Because also, during this time, I know everybody needs more time with family, friends. They sort of need more outreach and contact, virtually. Given that we can't have as much of it physically.

Michelle:    Yes. Yes. And I think having that contact virtually is so important right now.

Natalie:    Yeah.

Michelle:    So we're almost finished with our interview.

Natalie:    Aw.

Michelle:    But I wanted to ask a couple more things before we go. Because this is one thing that I thought was very hopeful from this post, and I want to share it. Because you have a list of five different industries that you think are going to thrive. But I wanted to call out one. 

And why do you think the coaching and counseling industry is going to thrive?

 Because I know I have a lot of coaches in my audience. And so, I just wanted to get your perspective on this.

Natalie:    Yeah. Well, this is obviously, totally my opinion. But, just from watching the trains. Also looking at previous kinds of, I guess, world issues, when there have been tough times. People still need that sense of guidance, mentoring, and coaching. In fact if anything, they're looking for it more than ever. They're doubting their own decisions, they're doubting their minds, they're doubting what's possible.

Natalie:    So for two cents. If there's a coach, mentor, or advisor, people often are willing to invest there, because I think they feel they need more of that accountability, hand holding, than ever. They just want to know that somebody's got their back, that they've got somebody who's supporting them when they're especially needing to support others.

Natalie:    And from a counseling perspective, you know, I read something that was really fascinating the other day. They said just because we have this pandemic doesn't mean that relationship break-ups... And I don't want to go there too much, but you know. Abuse, mental illness. None of that stuff disappears just because we're going through a pandemic. If anything, it's highlighted even more. 

So there's even more need for people to call counselors and have that ear to lean on, and that person to be able to guide them through how they're feeling. Because everything is intensified.

Natalie:    So I do feel for people who have maybe re-skilled or re-trained in that, or used to do it and want to come back out. People are going to be crying out for it. My partner's sister works with a health line, and they've been absolutely... a help line, sorry, and they've just been absolutely bombarded with, normally mental health issues, people talking about suicide and all sorts. But with this pandemic, people are now ringing up and going, along with that, what about COVID-19? So they've just been run off the phone.

Natalie:    And so I think it's very, very timely. If that is a skill that you possess, if that's ability that you have, certified in counseling obviously, or in business coaching, and if you just have the skills from doing it, I think it's a really great time to be doing it and offering that up, because people need support now more than ever.

Michelle:    Yes. And I want to just reiterate that, because a lot of my clients are coaches. I have a lot of coaches and therapists in my practice, that I help with their messaging. And they are seeing just their businesses blossom right now, because people do need help and support.

So if you are at all hesitating putting your services, your offerings out there, don't. As Natalie said earlier, this is a time to be selling, to be offering, to be of service. So coaches, therapists, we need you. Please put your services out into the world.

Natalie:    Yes.

Michelle:    This is your time.

Natalie:    Yeah. 100%. 100%. Yeah.

Michelle:    Yeah, the question I want to ask you is what do you want to tell people ... Or yeah. 

What's the one thing you think people should keep in mind as they are navigating this big, uncertain time that we're in?

Natalie:    That is a big, juicy question.

Michelle:    Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Natalie:    I'd love to say that for me, the little things that you do right now are setting you up for a future, I believe, of possibility, happiness, and purpose. And by that I mean every single little action that you manage to take over the next days, weeks, and months, is going to serve you really, really well in the future. For any other hard times that you may come through, and there will be more. For any other global sort of issues that we're going to go through together as a community, as nations, as one. And so, this is the moment for you to start building those really solid foundations.

Natalie:    By that, I'm talking about your mindset. Strengthening your mindset through meditation, through coaching, through up-skilling, also through those daily rituals. All of the things that you're going to develop right now, in this time, and beyond, are going to serve you for every single other opportunity and possibility in your life.

Natalie:    So, I'm not trying to make it sound so grandiose, but it's just like... Turn up every day. Show up. Through the small things, because they will start to add up. And they will serve you really, really well to become the best human being you can be, regardless of what is happening in the world.

Michelle:    I'm giving you a standing ovation right now. Because I love that. It's so good. So tell everyone where they can find you online.

Natalie:    Yeah. I'd absolutely love to. So I'm all over social media. Including right now. So I'm @NatalieSisson on Twitter. Which, I'm not on there much, but I am on there. And on Instagram. And I've also got a free guide, actually, which is nice, it's for monetizing yourself. Get Paid to Be You. Which I've put in a little special extra. It's just a free PDF and audio for people, if they want to dive into that. And that's at NatalieSisson.com/RebelRising. Because it's a great time to be a rebel.

Natalie:    Actually, I love your podcast name so much right now. It is absolutely perfect for where we're at. It is a time to be a little rebellious, right? Like to re-invent yourself, to do some things different, to test and experiment, but most of all to serve and show up.

Michelle:    Yes.

Natalie:    So if they want to get a copy of that, that's where I've got it. And outside of that, just love for people to say if they've enjoyed this interview, if they've gotten anything out of it. Please let Michelle and I know.

Michelle:    Yes. Absolutely. And I would recommend downloading her guide, because it will definitely give you some ideas on what are the revenue streams to create, what you can experiment with right now as far as your offers go. It's a great resource for figuring out what you could be creating. What's possible for you right now during this time. Because this is a time of possibility, as much as you feel like you're stuck in your house and trapped, there's a lot of possibility for creation, and I think your guide can guide them in that way.

Natalie:    Yeah. 100%. Totally.

Michelle:    Well, thank you so much, Natalie, for being on the show with me. This is so awesome, I'm so glad you're here.

Natalie:    It's been amazing, and thank you for giving me tons of energy for the morning, because it's morning time here. So thank you for this conversation. It's got me all juiced about the things that I can go and do. Tiny steps. Big leaps. So thank you.

Michelle:    You are so welcome.