Make Marketing Suck Less

Dr. Michelle Mazur (00:00): Have you ever wondered what needs to happen to take an idea and turn it into a TV show? Because all of the TV that we watch starts as an idea in somebody's head, and then they had to develop that idea, advocate for it, and finally get it on TV. Well, it turns out what needs to happen isn't so different from what we need to do as business owners to take an idea out of our head and turn it into a business.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (00:37): Today I am so excited to share this episode with you. I am speaking to Dave Noll, the co-creator of the hit reality TV show Chopped. We're diving into how he and his colleague first developed the idea of this show and what they needed to do to get it to 75% there to being on the air. We also talk about how too much of something almost killed the show.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (01:15): You don't want to miss this interview. There are so many brilliant nuggets that apply to how we run our business and what it takes to be successful in business, because television is business after all. A little bit more about Dave, he's a television series creator and a show runner. He has created, sold and produced 60 plus series and over 3,300 episodes both in the US and around the world. Dave has two Emmy's, two Gracie awards, a James Beard award for best television series, Chopped, and a platinum album award from the Recording Industry of America. So enjoy the show and I will be back on the flip side to wrap everything up.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (02:14): You're listening to the Rebel Uprising podcast. This podcast is dedicated to helping passionate business owners become recognized leaders who make more money and impact the world by turning their messy, complicated ideas into thriving thought leadership businesses. I'm your host, Dr. Michelle Mazur, and I'll be your no BS guide in the art of building a business that gets noticed. Each week I share strategies, tools, and insights on how to turn your complicated ideas into great messaging and solid business structures. Are you ready to create an uprising in your industry? Let's do this. Hi, Dave, welcome to the Rebel Uprising podcast. I am so excited to chat with you today.

Dave Noll (03:03): Oh my gosh. It's outstanding to join you on the podcast. Thank you so much.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (03:08): Well, thank you for asking, because I thought it was super cool that you and your co-creator produced this incredible TV show called Chopped. And for our listeners who might be living under a rock and who don't know what Chopped is all about, why don't you tell us what it's about.

Dave Noll (03:29): Well, if you don't know what Chopped is about then I'm sorry for that. It's terrible. All bragging aside, it is one of the greatest culinary competitions, one of the greatest food competitions in history. And that's just the truth. The big ones are essentially MasterChef on Fox with Gordon Ramsey, Top Chef on Bravo and then Chopped, which is on both the Food Network and now also Discovery Plus. And Chopped, it's unique in that it all happens in the course of one hour. So you flip on Chopped and there's four up and coming chefs and they each have to cook an appetizer and serve it to our judges. Our hook is that they are given a basket of ingredients that they have no idea what is going to be in that basket. It could literally be anything from M&M's to octopus.

Dave Noll (04:17): So they open up the basket, they have to cook an appetizer, then one of them is then chopped, which is what keeps the energy of the show going. Whoever cooks what our judges decide is the least appetizing appetizer, the worst chef gets chopped then three chefs move on to the main course. They're given a new basket of ingredients, one of them is chopped, and then two chefs are left to cook a dessert. And one of them is chopped and the other one wins $10,000. And it's been now on the air for 10 plus years. It's absolutely amazing. And multiple versions and versions now around the world. So we are almost up to 1,000 episodes across the franchise.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (05:01): Wow. You've even been spoofed on Saturday Night Live.

Dave Noll (05:05): Thank you so much for bringing that up. It was honestly one of the greatest moments of my entire life. And it was so weird because you're sitting there watching Saturday Live and then all of a sudden...

Dr. Michelle Mazur (05:17): Oh my gosh, you don't know.

Dave Noll (05:18): I had no idea. No one told me. And I've been in TV a long time.... I know people who have written for Saturday obviously, but I've been a fan of Saturday Night Live since I was old enough, since high school. Right?

Dr. Michelle Mazur (05:33): Yeah.

Dave Noll (05:33): And now all of a sudden you're watching this show and they're doing your show. And by the way, one of my favorite actresses of all time absolutely is Emma Thompson and she was in the flipping sketch. And I completely freaked out. I was very emotional about it for a number of weeks. My wife thought I was losing it.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (05:52): I love that. It was funny because I was Googling the show and I was like, "Oh yeah, I remember this sketch." What an honor to be a part of the cultural zeitgeist that is Saturday Night Live. And if you haven't seen the sketch, we'll hook it up for you in the show notes, for sure.

Dave Noll (06:10): Y'all must watch the sketch. It's a little naughty. I'm not going to lie, like Saturday Live style it's a little naughty, but it was crazy because when you have a successful television show, you don't really know how successful it is until later. You put this show out there and then the numbers come back and in the case of Chopped, they were good but people think, ah, was it a blockbuster out of the gate? It's great. And that really isn't usually what happens in television. It happens maybe with some scripted shows, but most things aren't just out of the gate amazing. And basically what happened with Chopped is it took a couple of years for it to really permeate the zeitgeist, as you just said.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (06:57): And it's such a good way because I think for the people who are listening, we come up with these ideas and we don't know their impact right away. And it can take some time to figure that out.

Dave Noll (07:10): And that's the greatest thing is you don't know. I say to anyone, if you're writing a book, if you're starting a podcast, if you're trying to create a TV show, if you're writing a song, people in advertising, architects, anyone who's in anything creative at all, and there's so many of us, the most amazing part is you have no idea really what the success is going to be. You have absolutely no idea. And where that can lead is often mind blowing.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (07:39): Hey, it's Michelle swooping in to let you know that Dave and I had some technical issues during this interview, his mic totally went out. So we did this in two parts. You might notice a little audio quality difference, you might not, either away, but here is part two. All right, switching gears. Can you take me back to that moment when you and your co-creator first came up with the idea for Chopped? What was happening? What was going on?

Dave Noll (08:15): I would like to say I remember like it was yesterday. I don't remember it like it was yesterday only because it was such a long time ago at this point. So it was 2006. And at that point I worked on as part of a development team with this very talented show creator named Mike Krupat. And Mike's still creating shows to this day. He was based in LA. I was based in New York. I was about to pitch the great Charles Nordlander at the Food Network. And for those of you who don't know Charles Nordlander, which is crazy, but he is TV legend. He was at the Food Network for a long time, at a number of other places. And he is this intimidating presence, I just think one of the smartest people in TV and he has glasses and he's always really dressed well.

Dave Noll (09:05): So I had this meeting set with Charles Nordlander at the Food Network and I called Mike and I said, "I've got a couple of things to pitch him. I don't don't have anything that I absolutely love." And Mike and I had been having this pretty lengthy conversation months long, maybe years long conversation about this trashy television show called ElimiDate.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (09:31): I think I remember that show. Oh, my gosh, it was trashy.

Dave Noll (09:38): It was definitely trashy. So ElimiDate was a trashy syndicated television show where a woman dated... Not five. A woman dated four men at once. And it different points in the show eliminated, that's why it was called ElimiDate, one guy. So she was like, "Okay, I'm tossing out Jimmy." And so he's gone. And then a little bit later in the show she gets rid of another dude and he's gone, now there's two guys left. And then she gets rid of one and then ends up in a jacuzzi with another, with the guy.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (10:14): Got it.

Dave Noll (10:15): And so Mike and I, we are TV format nerds of honestly, which there's just not that many people in the world who are TV format nerds, but we are. And so we would talk about this show and basically we said to each other, in theory this should work, this format. We started calling it a 4, 3, 2, 1 format. Now, that is a real term in television. People refer to them as 4, 3, 2, 1's. Mike and I were calling this crazy show, 4, 3, 2, 1 10, 15 years ago. And so he said, "Well, what if we 4, 3, 2, 1 a cooking competition." And at that point in time, Food Network had basically one great cooking competition and that was Iron Chef.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (10:59): Oh, I remember Iron Chef. That was excellent.

Dave Noll (11:01): Iron Chef's a great show, but the other thing format nerds know is that Iron Chef gets a little bit hard to watch maybe a halfway through or two-thirds of the way through because it's only one competition. So we took this knowledge, we were like, "Okay, Iron Chef is great, but half way through, two thirds of the way through it gets a little slow. ElimiDate is trashy, but it's never boring. So what if we combine these two things together?" And honestly it was amazing.

Dave Noll (11:39): Sometimes I've heard Paul McCartney talk about writing songs, pop songs, and he's talks about how sometimes it takes months and it's a slog and you just know there's something there and it sticks with you or whatever. And then sometimes it just all comes and it's amazing. Creating television shows is exactly the same way, sometimes there's shows that take years to craft and you have this nugget of an idea and you work it and you work it and you work it and finally it clicks. Chopped, as soon as he said, "What about a 4, 3, 2, 1 meets Iron Chef?" Literally I was like, "Oh my God, that's brilliant." And then he was like, "It's three competitions now, so that could be appetizer, main course, dessert." And I was like, "You're a genius. This is insane."

Dr. Michelle Mazur (12:32): Hey, I wanted to pause here because Dave just said something really important for you as a business owner, he was talking about the idea that sometimes a show takes years and years to craft and you just have this nugget of an idea and you work it and eventually it clicks. And I just wanted to say, your business and your message can be a lot like this. It is an evolution that we all work on to get it right, to get that right argument. All right, I'm going to let Dave go back to his story.

Dave Noll (13:10): And then I was like, "That silver dome in a fancy restaurant, they take off the silver, he removes the thing and that's the dish that's been unlimited, and he says, "You've been Chopped."" And then both of us were like, "The show's called Chopped. It's perfect." And it was this moment of sheer excitement and energy. And to his credit, Nordlander got it almost instant. So I actually went in and said, "We've got this amazing... It's a hilarious pitch, but it's a really great show." I had known Nordlander for a while at that point so he trusted me but I said, "It's got a really funny pitch. The line is, and it's true, this is Iron Chef meets ElimiDate."

Dr. Michelle Mazur (13:55): That's a great pitch.

Dave Noll (13:56): It is. And he immediately... His eyes widened and he smiled and he laughed. So when you have a sell line that good and when you have a title as good as Chopped, which really it's amazing how great that title is.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (14:13): It is.

Dave Noll (14:13): That is far, that gets you 75%, 85% of the way there. But now though you do need a show that is amazing and it works on every level. And so he asked me a series of questions. I walked him through the format beat by beat. It then took two plus years to get on the air, which was agony. To his credit, he got it right away and he fought for that show the whole time.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (14:38): Michelle here again. I just wanted to highlight something that Dave said, because he is dealing with TV producers who hear a lot of pitches, just like your clients are always being sold to. And the interesting thing to me is he was talking about the title of the show and the sell line is what gets you 85% of the way there. That is true for businesses as well. Having that great 3 Word Rebellion, that unique selling proposition, and then having a compelling, what I call a, why buy statement, the reason people should work with you, what they're going to get from it, that brings you such a long way.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (15:30): And, yeah, it might take work, but once you get there, as long as you have an amazing product or service to back it up, it's going to make a huge difference, just like it made a huge difference to Dave getting Chopped on the air. Now, we're going to talk to him about the struggles of taking this idea and turning it into a reality. So that brings me to my next question, because he bought it, he got it, you had a great sell line, you had a great message, great name, but I know that there are a lot of people who have to buy into your idea in order to get a TV show produce. So how did you navigate those two years and handle the people who are like, "I'm not really sure about this show."

Dave Noll (16:21): I could literally do a two hour podcast, slash therapy session, there would be tears and agony. First of all, that's why having a great title and a great sell line is so helpful, Because it does take two years. The fastest you can ever get a show on the air on TV is maybe six months, nine months. And then sometimes it takes two years, two and a half years. And so if you have the great sell line, if you have the great title, or if you have a great talent, if you have a great host, those are the types of things that keep a show afloat and it gets it through all those different divisions, no matter who we pitch, they have to pitch their boss and their boss has to pitch their boss or their boss has to pitch the marketing team or the sales team or whoever it is. And that's why we work so hard at crafting all of those little elements.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (17:16): Hey, are you ready to advocate for your work to build the argument that allows you to powerfully and persuasively communicate the value your business creates in your marketing, your copy and sales? Well, that's exactly what we do in the 3 Word Rebellion messaging intensive. It is me and you for 90 days, building out a comprehensive message that positions your work with the 3 Word Rebellion and builds that argument for why people should work with you. Ready to see if this is the right next move for your business? Go to 3wrcall.com. That is the number three, W, R, call.com and fill out the application. Let me take a look and see if it makes sense for us to have a conversation together. I look forward to chatting with you and helping you boldly advocate for your work.

Dave Noll (18:22): But the crazy thing about Chopped is because Iron Chef had this storyline. So Iron Chef, we remember it as really just a competition and it's two chefs against each other with their teams and there's one ingredient or whatever, but in the original Iron Chef there this storyline that was part of the show. And so what happened in the development of Chopped was Food Network came back to us and they said, "Look, this is a great show, we love it, but for this pilot we want some sort of storyline." And we said, "What do you mean exactly?" They pointed to Iron Chef and they said, "We need some sort of story to get the viewer through this." And so we worked with our development team, so it was Mike and myself and Cleve Keller, who I still work with to this day she's a genius, and a couple other people. And we worked and crafted this storyline.

Dave Noll (19:17): These four chefs were cooking for this wealthy individual who you never see, but the whole show took place at the mansion. And the host was essentially like the butler, the chief of staff, that kind of [crosstalk 00:19:32] and these chefs were cooking for this... Like the banker on Deal or No Deal, this person you never saw. And it got to the point, it's almost embarrassing but it's such a weird, crazy story, where they said, "We want more story, more story," so it got to the point where the dish that was Chopped, that chef was eliminated and that dish was served to the dog.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (20:03): Ouch.

Dave Noll (20:03): It's so painful. And it was painful to watch. To take an up and coming chef, not only have they been eliminated from this competition, but also then their food is served to the dog was very cutting. It was a lot of Fox shows at that point that were very cutting like that, it was very Fox, it was not Food Network. And I remember being in the edit and just panicking and going, "I can't believe this is really what they wanted." And yet that's what they asked for. And they were part of... The whole time. And it's just that you have these moments in television where you're just like, "I can't see them picking this up."

Dave Noll (20:45): And yet this is what they see, maybe this is the direction they're going in, but my gut feeling was this is going to die and it's so painful because we worked so hard and the title's great, everything about it was so great. And they turned it down so fast. They took one look at it and basically said, "This isn't our network at all. What were you thinking?" And it was a terrible, heartbreaking moment because we literally were like, "This idea from the beginning was so good." And that's it. They call you one day and it's just dead. It's dead.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (21:18): So I wanted to pause here for a second because I think there's a really important lesson for you. Everybody is going to want to give you feedback on your business, on your message, how you should be marketing, but at the end of the day it's about feeling into what is right for you and your business. And just because somebody gives you feedback doesn't mean that you have to do it. It doesn't mean that at all. So in Dave's gut he knew that this was not going to work, but he ignored it and just took the feedback and implemented it. So whenever you get feedback that doesn't feel right for your business, your message, your marketing, set it aside. You get to make the ultimate decision. Okay, let's go back to Dave's story because clearly it has a happy ending.

Dave Noll (22:10): Luckily, when people say, "What is the most valuable advice that you give to anyone in television?" It really is don't ever, ever give up, when you believe in something and you really think it can be wildly successful and last for 10 years, 20 years, the way it was once described to me is don't leave the playing field, let everyone else leave the playing field and you're the last one out there until everyone has told you, "It's terrible." Just stay in the game. And so the show runner, the great Linda Lee, she had been the showrunner on Queer Eye. And so Linda and I were just talking about it one day, this was a couple weeks later, and she's this very smart, brassy, very creative Southern woman and she and I were talking and we were just like, "We believe in this show so much."

Dave Noll (23:12): And together we decided, look, we're going back in there. We're just not going to take no for an answer. And not only are we going to go back in there, we're going to risk... We had development executives that were on the show. We're going to risk offending everyone and we're going to go right to Bob Tuschman, who is the head of the Food Network at that point, we're going to go right to Bob and say, "We want to meet with you." And God bless Bob Tuschman, he said yes, he took the meeting. And we went in and it was Linda and I on one side and Bob and his team on the other side. And Linda and I had prepared this entire repitch of the show, why it was going to be so good, the success that could happen two years down the road, five years down the road, 10 years down the road, we had the whole thing mapped out.

Dave Noll (24:03): And right at the very beginning of the meeting there was a little bit of small talk, and there's never that much small talk with Bob Tuschman because he's always very direct and to the point, so there was maybe two minutes of small talk. And then he brought out of a folder the original document, the original pitch. And at that moment I was so excited, I was like, "Oh wow, we're talking about the same thing right now. He knows about that document." And he said, "Dave and Linda, this show on this page was so good, why did you give me all that craziness about the dog and the rich guy? Why didn't we just do this?" And then you're in this crazy position of, well, you can't throw his whole team under the...

Dr. Michelle Mazur (24:53): Yeah.

Dave Noll (24:55): But we calmly said, "Hey, look, that's the show we believe in. That's the show we came here to talk to you about. And that's the show we wanted to do. Because of this Iron Chef storyline, your team asked us for a storyline, we have all that documentation, we can walk you back through how that happened, but we would kill to go back to that original document." And he said, "Yeah, that's what I want to do. I want to do another pilot. And I want it to be this document, do not verge from this document." That said though, he didn't want to pay for another full pilot so he made us pay for half the pilot. And so we found the money for it.

Dave Noll (25:38): And to his credit though, we then said, "Look, if we're going to pay for half of this, we're going to do that document. We don't want a lot of notes." And he said, "We're not going to give you any notes. Just do the show you want to do." It's just the rare example of when you stick it out and you just never give up and you work with the best in the industry, et cetera, et cetera, sometimes it works out. By the way, it never works like Chopped has, but sometimes it does.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (26:07): Well, I think for business owners there's a few definite takeaways. And one of the things as you were telling me about this elaborate story that got built around the premise of Chopped, I was like, "Oh, this is literally too many cooks in the kitchen spoiling the pot. Everybody's involved. Everybody has an opinion." And I know for people who listen to the show, they're always seeking feedback and seeking opinions and then all of a sudden it over complicates their idea and really dilutes the brilliance of it. And then when it doesn't work, they're like, "What do you mean? No, I've done all of this work." And you're like, "Well, the simple idea was the best idea."

Dave Noll (26:54): And the more I talk to entrepreneurs, the more I talk to successful business people, you hear this time and time and time and time again, I realized eventually, but it took me forever, I thought my goal was to create the next big thing and then figure out how to sell the next big thing. And then when somebody wanted it, figure out how to build the next big thing. And those are three very different roles that I have to do all three, and what I realized is once you create the next big thing, you sell the next big thing, as you're building it and then as it's succeeding, my other role then is to make sure the heart of it is always the most important part. So everyone around me, as you just said, wants to add something.

Dave Noll (27:41): They can all feel this. And the better the show is, the more people want to add. They want to be able to say, "I'm the one who said in act two we should do the thing." They all want to give you their feedback and want to be part of it. And it's your job to calmly say, and with a smile on your face, "Yes, but let's keep in mind the heart of this show is it's a 4, 3, 2, 1. It is a real competition. This is like a sporting event. It's a real competition. We can't make this crazy. We have to keep it to the roots of the Food Network and to this particular show." And that's what I've learned along the way. It's also my role to keep us on track and keep the heart of the show, the heart of the show.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (28:26): So before we go into our lightning round of 3 Word Rebellion questions, what would be one piece of advice that you would have for an entrepreneur to help them advocate for their own creative ideas in their business?

Dave Noll (28:43): I picture it as walls. If you're going to be an entrepreneur, no matter what your business is, no matter what you're doing, whether it's real estate or TV or you're selling boxes, whatever it is, I see it as there's walls and what everyone's going to do, even though it doesn't make any sense, it doesn't make any sense at all that everyone else's job is to put a wall in front of me. But it does seem like there's Cleve and I, we create a show and then it seems like everyone else's job is to throw up some sort of wall.

Dave Noll (29:17): And you have to have enough energy and enough passion, and you have to have those great things, what is the great hook? What is the great title? And as I say, "This is no matter what you're selling or what you're trying to grow, you need that line, that thing." Because really you have to crash through those walls multiple times a day every single day. And tomorrow, no matter who insults you, no matter what show they're turning down, you have to do it again. And the next day you have to do it again. And so I would just say no, that if you're trying to be wildly successful at something, and you're looking in the future and you're going over the course of the next 3, 4, 5 years, or even 10 years, I'm going to build this amazing property.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (30:05): All right. Here's something we don't talk about enough in business, what it really takes to build a successful business. Whatever success means for you, it is that tenacity, it is that resiliency, it is all the work that we don't see but we just see the end result on Instagram or Facebook. Just like we see the end result of the Chopped TV show, but we don't know what it takes to get there. And that is such a good point. It takes longer than you think no matter what industry you're working in. All right, back to Dave.

Dave Noll (30:46): Then you just better buckle up. You need to go and crash through those walls every single day for three years, four years, five years, you just got to keep doing it.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (30:56): Yes. Well, as someone who works on messaging with people to help them create that title and that sellable line that people want to know more about, I'm I'm sitting here the whole time being like, "Yes, this is exactly why I do the work I do, because it's not easy to craft that but once you have it, it helps you crash through the walls."

Dave Noll (31:20): 100%. And this is why I love your podcast, by the way, because no matter what business you are in, you need those things. I get people pitching me all the time with various things. And what I want to say is it's just not tight enough. Maybe you have a nebulous idea for a show that's never been done, that might be interesting, but you haven't worked it. You're like a sculpture who just threw some clay at me and it roughly looks like something great, but you need that great sell line, you need that great title. If it's a new company, if it's a new whatever it is, app, a new whatever you need the whole thing, it has to be so tight that you can tuck it under your arm and get ready to crash through every wall that comes in front of you.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (32:11): Oh, God. Thank you.

Dave Noll (32:13): I'm with you.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (32:14): Yes. 100%. We couldn't be better aligned. All right.

Dave Noll (32:17): Dr. Michelle, I am with you.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (32:20): All right. Are you ready for the lightning round of 3 Word Rebellion questions?

Dave Noll (32:24): Maybe.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (32:27): Maybe. I'm sure you are. All right. So tell me what's one thing you're rebelling against?

Dave Noll (32:33): Negativity. I'm sick of it. So easy to be negative. It's so easy to be grumpy. It's so easy. People think, oh, that person's just happy, that person's just positive, that's the way they were born. No, no, no, that's the hard work. The hard work is to be positive. The hard work is to face everything we're facing as humans and be happy. The hard work is to be a positive, uplifting idea filled person. The easy thing is to be negative. That's what we're naturally all are. That's the easy. The easy thing is to be the curmudgeon, the critic, the negative Nelly, I am so sick of that. I rebel against it.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (33:17): It's so interesting you say that because I came up with these 3 Word Rebellion questions and the first one, what are you rebelling against? People always are like, "Oh my gosh, so many things. Let me tell you all of the things." But then when I ask them this next question, it stumps them, they don't have as much to say. So that question is what change do you want to create in the world?

Dave Noll (33:41): The answer's crazy easy because it's the opposite. And it is positivity. I just think, yes, this country is not perfect. Yes, no matter who you are, your life is not perfect. Your husband's not perfect. Your job is not perfect. Your boss is not perfect. If we could just relax a little and so much of our lives though, no matter how you want to look at it, whether you're religious or not, but so much of our life is a gift, is a blessing. We are part of a country, or there's a number of countries out there, where you can do amazing miraculous things if you put your mind to it and if you are relentlessly positive day in and day out and learn and be ready to crash through walls and be smart. And so what change do I want to create in the world is a heck of a lot more positivity.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (34:34): And it's interesting because I would say it's positivity infused with action and infused with overcoming the obstacles.

Dave Noll (34:42): And some sort of intelligence.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (34:47): Well, that goes without saying, I think. Finally, if everyone acted on the change, what would the world be like?

Dave Noll (34:58): It's so let's all hold hands and sing together.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (35:03): Yes.

Dave Noll (35:04): This is the road I've driven down. But I really do believe that even the great financial thinkers, the Warren Buffet's and the Oprah, the positivity that flows through them is what has helped them and it is what has made them successful. And the more successful I have gotten, the more of these types of people I have met along the way. The more I meet them and the more I hang out with them, the more I believe they had to also be so positive to get through everything they've gotten through. And so I really do believe if everybody acted on that change and woke up and said, "You know what? Tomorrow, no matter what life throws at me, I'm going to be a little bit happier". I'm going to be a little bit more positive. I'm going to be a little bit more open to other people. It would make the world a much better place. But on a listener to listener, I just say to all the listeners out there, to everyone listening to your podcast, first, you're making very smart decisions, great choices.

Dave Noll (36:08): But second of all, if you want to be successful, this is what I've learned from my career but also meeting with all these people, wake up tomorrow and decide I'm going to be a little bit more positive, I'm going to be a little bit happier and come up with that long term plan. Where do you see yourself in five years, 10 years, how do you get there? You have to walk tall with a smile on your face and say, "This is where I want to be in five years, 10 years down the line." You have to wake up every day and decide I'm going to do it again today. I'm going to be positive. I'm going to get there.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (36:43): I love it. So Dave Noll, tell people where they can find you. Where do you hang out these days?

Dave Noll (36:50): LinkedIn is my favorite. I decided in 2021 every secret I've ever learned I was going to put on LinkedIn, and so I'm trying to just do post after post of anything I've ever learned. So connect with me on LinkedIn or Instagram. On Instagram I am @davenolltv. So D-A-V-E, N-O-L-L, T-V.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (37:11): Well, Dave, thank you so much. This was such a great and insightful interview. I really appreciate you. Whoa, that was such a great conversation. I felt like I was with Dave when he was describing about coming up with the idea for Chopped. His enthusiasm is contagious. And I hope is inspires you to keep crashing through the wall. Whether that wall is trying to develop your message or developing that sell line, or maybe it's just you're getting too much feedback and you don't know which way to go, or you just feel like you're at a dead end and you're not sure what you need to do next to advocate for your work and get it out into the world. Next week we are going back to our industry, the business world, and I want to bust through a misconception around building your audience and your platform, especially looking at some of the celebrity entrepreneurs, the biggest names with the biggest audiences and talk about how they really developed their platform and what that means for your business.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (38:34): Thank you for listening all the way to the end of the show. Your support means the world to me. Did you know the Rebel Uprising podcast has a quiz that can help you pinpoint the number one way to build an audience of super fans while staying true to your unique personality? We do, and it's called what's your rebel roadmap to exponential impact and influence. And you can take it at therebelquiz.com. If you are loving the podcast, do us a favor, rate and leave us a quick five star review wherever you listen to your podcasts. It helps more people like you find the show. Until next week, remember, your ideas matter. And now get back out there and cause an uprising in your industry. You got this.