Make Marketing Suck Less

Tara Newman (00:00): A lot of the way marketing is done online is, it's mass marketed, lacks differentiation, speaks to an entry level market. An early market solves entry level problems, and it doesn't work for most people, and I don't think it's going to work particularly well in a downturn economy. It's going to continue to work for the web celebs because they got on the plane early, they're sitting at the front of the plane.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (00:31): Get ready for the Rebel Uprising podcast, the only podcast dedicated to business owners who feel overlooked for their expertise, skills, and experience. Let's claim your expertise and turn your complex ideas into unmistakable messaging that grows your business. I am your host, Dr. Michelle Mazur, the author of the 3 Word Rebellion and your Rebel Troop Telling Guide to Building a Business that Gets Noticed. You're just one course away from recession proofing your business, or are you. The message around recession proofing is everywhere these days. But what do you really need to know about surviving and even thriving in this economy? Will the course or the membership site be the ticket, or are there other skills you want to cultivate to build a sustainable business in uncertain times? That's exactly why I wanted to have my friend Tara Newman on the show to talk about the economy because when Tara talks about the economy and what it means for small businesses, I listen because of this isn't her first rodeo when it comes to riding out a recession.

(01:46): Tara Newman is the founder and CEO of the Bold Profit Academy, where she teaches service-based business owners how to sell premium services and programs without the emotional stress of launching, worrying about ads, overwhelming social strategies or complex funnels. Tara hosts a weekly podcast called The Bold Money Revolution and has been featured in publications like Money Magazine, Yahoo! Finance, and Huffington Post, as well as other publications and podcast. She earned her master's in organizational psychology from Hofstra University, has over 20 years of experience, is a certified profit first professional, and holds an advanced level Reiki certification. Everything she teaches incorporates energy, mindset, and strategy as a framework for resiliency and results. Enjoy this conversation with Tara and be on the lookout for the three core skills. Tara says, "You should focus on developing to build a sustainable business during this time." Welcome back to the Rebel Uprising podcast, Tara Newman. I am so excited to have you here with me today.

Tara Newman (02:58): I was just trying to think if there was a word to describe appropriately how excited I am. I'm not sure there is, but I am super pumped.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (03:08): Oh, I'm excited because I really wanted to have you on to talk about what the hell is going on in the economy, how it's impacting online business owners. Because I know you spent a lot of time studying the trends, I know you're getting your certified financial planner master's degree. Is that right? Did I get that right?

Tara Newman (03:30): So I'm taking classes so that if I want to become certified, I can be. It's a really long, hard, laborious process, but I'm just seeing where it goes.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (03:39): That is awesome. So the first thing I wanted to ask you is there is an onslaught of messaging happening right now about recession proving your business. And you have an interesting take on this messaging. So what do you think about it?

Tara Newman (03:57): Well, first, I want to back up for a second and just say where my take is coming from because I have weathered the recession already in 2008, 2009. That's when our first business really went out of business and was struggling and hit the skid. So I've already experienced this as a small business owner, as well as being raised by a small business owner who I remember very distinctly growing up when the economy was downturning and when it wasn't based on the actions my dad was taking. And as a profit first certified consultant and really being present to what happens in a business cash flow wise, regardless of the economy. So I just wanted to say, hey, there's a reason why this is important to me, there's a reason why I study this and the perspective and the bias that I'm bringing to this. I think that's important so people know how to take what I'm about to say.

(04:54): And I also want to say that the conversations that I've been having around this are what the express intent to be grounded and so people don't freak out in panic because that is the absolute worst thing that they can do regardless of whether or not you're a small business owner. But specifically if you're a small business owner, the worst thing that you can do is freak out in panic. And so, I am watching the messaging coming across, that is a weird mash up of, I'm going to help you recession proof your business, how to recession proof your business, you're one course away from recession proofing your business.

(05:34): And the other uptick I'm seeing is around, and this is how smart they are, they know that more people are going to start looking to start side hustles or their own business in a downturn economy. Like 50% of businesses are started during a recession or a downturn in the economy. So I'm watching all this messaging now come out and looking to hit professionals who want to start their business. And now we are hearing the stories of, "In one year, my course made me $750,000 in the first year of my business." And I'm like, "Maybe, but I think there might have been other factors there if that's true. That might not expressly be true. That's not true for everybody." And so, if you are listening to this podcast and you are a business owner and you've got some friends who are professionals, because I know this is a smart bunch of established experts and you've got some friends looking to start businesses, don't let them get sucked in.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (06:33): Yes. Do not let them get sucked in. Because I've seen that messaging too, where it's this pivot to like, "Oh, want to start a side hustle? It's more secure than your day job because who knows, we might end up all losing our jobs." And the one course away thing just drives me not spin.

Tara Newman (06:51): And I think the problem with some of this messaging is, it's part true. So it is part true that if you are currently working in a traditional nine to five job, that you could be at greater risk for losing your job and you're certainly don't have control over the decisions that your company makes. Whereas as small business owners, we have a lot more control over the decisions that we make for ourselves. And yes, you probably do want to consider a side hustle as a way to insulate yourself potentially. I am seeing that a lot in my local community. People reaching out saying, "Hey, I'm starting a side hustle. Do you know somebody who needs somebody who does X?" So all these messages are partially true, which is why the lie works.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (07:39): Yes. So I'm curious, as someone who has weathered a recession before, what was your biggest takeaway from 2008?

Tara Newman (07:49): My biggest takeaway from 2008 probably was twofold. And then I do want to talk about the online business environment right now, given most of these businesses weren't around in 2008 because I think that's actually an important point. But I think the two things that I took away from 2008 were, one, yes, we were having a recession, yes, there were factors that were outside of my control, but I also focused on those factors and not the ones that were within my control. So when I stepped back years later, this wasn't even immediately after, but this was years later. When I was starting this business, which was probably a good four to six years after, I had to acknowledge that there were way more things that were in our control that we could have done and that we were focused primarily on the things that were beyond our control.

(08:41): The second thing that was my takeaway was we completely failed to develop money making skills. We were actually really good operators. We were great operationally. We knew how to make the sausage. It was selling the sausage that was the problem. It was communicating the value of what we did and positioning it as relevant in that moment that we really kind of struggled with. And I'll add my husband's takeaway because we've been talking about this a lot lately what our takeaways were from that time, because obviously we want to learn from them and continue to. His biggest takeaway was that he wasn't out there creating opportunity. He was waiting for opportunity to come to him, which is the same conversation with the sales, but he just language it a little differently.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (09:29): Yeah. So these are three pretty big takeaways. So number one, focus on what's in your control. Because yeah, it's really get easy to get swept up in the news and be like, oh, look, inflation's on the rise and supply chain issues, and none of that is actually something you can control. You didn't have the money making skills. Because I know a lot of the experts who listen to the show are great at delivering what they do, they get great results, they're great in sessions with their clients or delivering their service, but when it comes to actually bringing in people who want to work with them and selling them, that is a sticking point. So I love that you brought that up as well because that is something you should be working on if you're listening to this program. All right. So you wanted to comment on the state of online business. So I want to take us back there. What do we need to know as an online business owner about the current economic situation?

Tara Newman (10:37): So I want to preface who we're talking to first. You and I both speak to a very similar person. We're talking to established experts, they have likely had a professional career, they've likely had, I know my audience like 90%, probably even more at this point, have had a traditional nine to five job. You came out of academia, I came out of corporate. Whether it's a corporate organization or just a larger small business, there's a depth of expertise and experience. And the other thing I know is we're talking to people who are running service-based businesses and who really like working with their clients, who like to see the transformation, who like to be involved in the work. They're not looking to piece out just to go and scale and leverage and run something in addition to. So I just wanted to be clear about who I was talking to because it matters. You all have brains in your head. You are all smart, smart people. So that's the person who I want to talk to when I say what I'm going to say, because this is going to cause some dissonance.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (11:47): I'm ready for it.

Tara Newman (11:48): Okay. Over the last 10 to 12 years when the online space, in my opinion, has really been solidifying and growing and taking root, we have been in a time of tremendous peace and prosperity. We don't have a heck of a lot of data on how some of these business models that you see in the online space are going to fair, and we could, but we can make some assumptions. I don't like to speculate, but I'm just going to point out some things that maybe we want to be present to when we're watching this kind of transpire. So, first off, everything these days is a membership and a subscription. And it is historical that during times of economic downturns, the first things that people do is cut back on their monthly subscriptions and fees. That's just a fact. So I don't know. And let me tell you something, because I just went back into my expenses, my personal expenses this weekend, and I was like, "God dang, everything is a subscription." And people are going to be making decisions based on that. So that's one.

(13:02): Two, this is a space that causes a lot of financial harm to people, that people are very quick to pull out their credit cards and charge now think later. And what's happening with credit cards while our interest rates are increasing? And right now what we're seeing is that interest rates have increased and what people have on their credit cards is eating up the remainder of what was there. So if you have things like payment plans, if you have things like memberships, they're dropping out because people's cards are filling up more quickly and they're hitting their limit more quickly and not realizing it because the interest rates are literally increasing almost monthly.

(13:44): You can absolutely correct me if you feel like I'm misspeaking, Michelle, but a lot of the way marketing is done online is, it's mass marketed, lacks differentiation, speaks to an entry level market. An early market solves entry level problems, and it doesn't work for most people. And I don't think it's going to work particularly well in a downturn economy. I think it's going to continue to work for the people who it works for, because it's the essence of a MLM. It's going to continue to work for the web celebs because they got on the plane early, they're sitting at the front of the plane.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (14:22): Yeah. And they have that big audience that they built when it used to be the gravy days of easy to build audiences.

Tara Newman (14:30): And they have a lot more leeway. And again, they're selling a message to an entry level person solving an entry level problem, and it does lack differentiation. And I don't think it works very well for services. The last thing I want to say is for those people who have been making good money in the online space over the last 10 years, please don't get caught out mistaking timing with skill. It's been real easy for almost anyone. There's been a lot of margin for error in a time where there's been a lot of peace and prosperity when everyone has money, when nobody's thinking too hard about spending it, when the cost of borrowing is cheaper. And I see a lot of people who are mistaking timing and luck with skill.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (15:24): Yes. Yes. Okay. You've said several interesting things. The first is the membership, subscriptions and how people cut those first, because I know I've been doing that as well, looking like, "Where am I spending my money and do I need all of these things?" But there's also this message like, "Oh, your membership is the way that you're going to recession proof your business." And I'm just like, "No. No, that's where people go and cut first." So if you're thinking about a membership play or extended payment plans, then that can be a problem.

Tara Newman (16:02): I think it depends on who you're targeting. And what happens is in the online space, again, they tend to target newbie, they're competing on price. How can we make this? Are we allowed to name people on here? I've seen-

Dr. Michelle Mazur (16:17): Yeah, you can.

Tara Newman (16:17): ... Russell Brunson's ads literally talk about the impulse buy. So it depends because if you're targeting the impulse buy, if you're targeting that entry level person, if you're targeting the person who's going to shop on price, I think you're going to have a problem. Because when inflation is high, when the economy downturns, who's the first line of people to be considering, where am I going to get the extra gas money, where am I going to get the extra heating money, where am I getting that extra money? Well, it's the people who don't really have a lot of money. And I'm not saying this to be disparaging, I'm just saying this to be honest and truthful.

(17:01): But then you see places like Costco who really do well in a downturn economy, and they do have a membership model. As a matter of fact, 70% of their profit comes from their membership, but their clientele is not entry level low dollar type of clientele, they're actually more affluent. They're able to pay that membership in addition to go and buying things in bulk and spending what they spend at a Costco. So I know that looks like it's targeting maybe a "cheaper buyer", a price conscious buyer, but it's actually not. Walmart is targeting the price conscious buyer.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (17:44): And that really makes sense to me because if you're shopping at Costco, A, you need space. You're not living in a studio apartment and shopping at Costco, you have that space to stock up. So yeah, it makes sense. So for those of us who are really targeting people who are not entry level, so they're more established business owners, it sounds like their price point would be higher, right?

Tara Newman (18:09): Yes.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (18:10): So, do you see that as a way to navigate what's happening in our economy?

Tara Newman (18:16): Yeah. Listen, so I want to be nuanced, I think, did you say, the internet is the place where nuance goes to die?

Dr. Michelle Mazur (18:25): Yeah. I actually want to get that on a coffee mug.

Tara Newman (18:29): Tell me what you mean by that more specifically for your own audience.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (18:33): Oh, yeah. When I think about internet where nuance goes to die, it's that you can't really make a complex argument on the internet. It's just like the top line binary, it's good or it's bad type of thinking, or it's all or nothing thinking, and it applies to everyone equally. So there's none of that complex argumentation basically.

Tara Newman (18:58): Yeah. So one thing that I've seen a lot in the last year or so, online has been like, you want to target high net worth individuals, and I laugh. Because they want to target high net worth individuals so they can sell them some ridiculously priced online thing. And I work with a lot of high net worth individuals, and I actually had one of them just be targeted with some kind of ridiculous we high priced, high ticket item. And what people don't understand is those are some of the most discerning people, their high net worth for a reason. So I don't want to make this about, look for the people who are high net worth. I want to say look for the people who value the transformation that you provide. Look for the people who truly need the thing that you are selling. And for a lot of people who are selling services in the online space, specifically like business services to business people in the online space, that is going to mean selling to a more established business. Not necessarily a wealthier person, but where the service is truly needed and relevant.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (20:09): Yeah. The thing I'm seeing is that there's this big gap for people who do have established businesses. They still have problems. They're looking for solutions. My typical client is somebody who's been in business two or more years, they're killing it on word of mouth marketing. So they are really established and now they want to dial their messaging in because they want to build their audience so they can have some type of group program in the future. So it's this really practical problem they're trying to solve with messaging these days, which is great. And I know exactly who it is I want to be working with and how to communicate my value. Because the other thing you also said was about differentiation, like you have to know how you're different in the marketplace because the people who are more established business owners they're savvier and so they know what they're looking for and they know what reads like a line of bullshit.

Tara Newman (21:09): That is what I hope. And it's still easy for us all to get hooked in because there's a lot of gas lighting happening. I've seen a couple ads come across my feet and one was this one with like, "Go from $0 to $750,000 with your course in your first year of business." And then the other one was around making seven figures in 10 hours a week. And I'm like, I know neither one of those things are really possible. But in my head about it, I'm like, "Well, what if I'm wrong? What if it's my mindset? What if those things aren't really possible?" So even I have a moment where I'm like, "Wait a second."

Dr. Michelle Mazur (21:53): I was having a conversation with Maggie Patterson, my co-host of Duped, and she was reading some sales page. She's all like, "This copy is so compelling that I actually believe that I need this and I know I don't."

Tara Newman (22:04): Right. Right. It's really disorienting.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (22:10): It really is. Because I think there's a part of our brain that wants to believe that that is possible, meanwhile, there's this other part that is like, "Oh, that is some bullshit right there."

Tara Newman (22:23): Well, you're like, "I know this isn't true, but they're telling me it's true." And they're presenting it with a lot of confidence and bold claims and concrete numbers, and you can get real twisted around, especially if you're having a bad day.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (22:42): Oh, yeah. So what do you think online business owners need to do or know in order to navigate these uncertain economic times?

Tara Newman (22:54): Yeah. Okay. So, first of all, this too shall pass. This too shall pass, this is a normal economic event, even though it seems unprecedented, which every economic crisis that we've had has been unprecedented in the moment that it happened. If you think about it, no one had seen the Great Depression when it happened, nobody had seen the housing market crash in 2008, nobody had seen the collapse of the systems that happened in 1987. That's what happens. Something unprecedented happens, and we make it through to the other side because humans are resilient. And then we find solutions to make sure that these things don't really happen again.

(23:38): So we are hit with this being presenting a little differently, the inflation part is a little more stubborn than probably we've seen in the past where they've expected. We've got weird intersections with what's happening in the Ukraine and Russia and how that's impacting us. And just a lot of volatility post-COVID with the supply chain issues and the labor shortages. It's weird. That's it. It's weird, but it will pass. So everybody needs to zoom out. I always say, "When in doubt, zoom out."

Dr. Michelle Mazur (24:08): I love that.

Tara Newman (24:10): Warren Buffett has a quote that I'm going to call on, but I'm going to switch a little bit. So he says, "When others are being greedy, be fearful. And when others are fearful, be greedy." And I don't love the use of the word greedy. I get it. So what I want to say is when others are being brazen, be conservative. And when others are being conservative or fearful, be bold and brazen. So now is not the time to cower, now is the time to be very confident moving in the direction that you want to go in. And I think to do that, you have to consider where you want to be in three years. Do you still want to be in business in three years? Or you like, "You know what? This is just hard and I don't want to do this." And if that's the case, go get a job, there's nothing wrong with that, but go quickly because we don't know what this economy is going to look like. And right now, they're still hiring.

(25:04): So decisiveness is really required right now in whatever people decide to choose. I think that with any economic crisis, there is boatloads of opportunity. So don't get stuck in the thought that there isn't any opportunity or the time has passed or the ship has sailed or any of that. You very much do create your own opportunities, especially in times like this. The reason why I'm also talking about this is because you have to put yourself in the shoes of your buyer like, what is your buyer experiencing right now? And how can you speak to that to position yourself and your offer as relevant? How are you relevant right now given the circumstances that you have?

Dr. Michelle Mazur (25:49): That's a great question. How are you relevant right now given the circumstances?

Tara Newman (25:53): Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Create the opportunity.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (25:56): Yeah. And that might mean you need to tweak your messaging, you need to tweak your positioning. The other thing I wanted to call out is like, you've got to get good at sales. And what I love about your work and what I love about being in the Bold Profit Academy is that we get that focus on doing like high touch sales instead of what the internet marketers tell you. And I think that is such a foundational skill to have right now.

Tara Newman (26:22): And we're going to be going down that path for the next year real hard because what I like to say I teach is I like to teach the things that people are unwilling to do, that the majority of people are unwilling to do. So if we can come together as a group in the Bold Profit Academy and support each other in being bold and courageous, even when scared to do the thing that most people aren't willing to do, we naturally have a competitive advantage.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (26:49): Yes. And yeah, we just can't sit behind our computer screens and sales are going to come to us.

Tara Newman (26:56): Oh, no. Oh, no. So listen, I get it. Listen, I've struggled with visibility and putting my face on things and being present and all that stuff. I get it. I get it from such a emotional perspective, but we don't have time to worry about that anymore. So in the next 12 to 24 months, if you don't think you can get out there, build relationships in a high touch visible way where you're not hiding behind your keyboard and participating in comment trains on social media or looking for every tactic that you can find except to physically put yourself out there, we need to have a conversation, you need to really check in. And I'm not saying this, again, from a place of trying to shame or blame or judge or anything, I'm saying this because I'm deeply then concerned for your ability to generate the revenue you're going to need.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (27:56): Yeah. I think I always surprise people when I tell them that I really love sales. I love having sales conversations. There are always interesting to me, intriguing. I love seeing how I can help or how my service fits what that person needs or sometimes doesn't. But that is a skill I have been building for years, and now is the time to start building those. If you haven't built those skills, it's time to be a little uncomfortable and start building them because you need them, they're even vital for business when things are good.

Tara Newman (28:34): Yeah. Listen, I will never stop building my sales skill. I will never be done because that's a money making skill. I can take that skill no matter where I go, even if I decide I'm going to go back to corporate and I can use that skill to sell myself to get the job, to negotiate better pay, to get my initiatives across somebody's desk. Those are skills that you will always have and always take with you no matter what. So I will never stop building that skill. And it's the one thing that makes everything else easier, because then once you build that skill and you've done it, because I hear, "Oh, it's hard. It's this and that." Yeah. Okay, I get it, it's hard. But then as you understand why and what, and see what works, you can then automate and make it easier and create workflows, but you can't get to the point where you're making it easier in creating workflows until you've done the work to build the skill.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (29:32): I 100% agree. If you just take one thing away from today's discussion is that build the skill and then you can think about automating later on. But that skill is so crucial. So, Tara, are you ready for the Three Word Rebellion lightning round of questions that I love asking?

Tara Newman (29:55): Yeah. Okay, Michelle, because I'm laughing. Okay, go.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (30:00): All right. This one is going to be tough for you.

Tara Newman (30:02): It is.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (30:03): What's one thing you're rebelling against?

Tara Newman (30:05): Yeah, one. I'm going to pick one for today. How about that?

Dr. Michelle Mazur (30:10): Yeah. What's on your mind today?

Tara Newman (30:13): Well, it's been on my mind for a while, and that is really how women have been preyed upon and abused in the online business culture, and through specifically things like online learning programs and how they don't deliver what's expected, how they don't value. I think women's time, energy and money the way they should given the messaging they come out with that is traditionally pretty like women's empowerment-driven.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (30:43): Yeah. I feel that deeply. I am seeing more and more people come to me after they have been severely burned by a program, spending tens of thousands of dollars on messaging and then not getting what was promised or what they got was just not even usable for their business. Yeah, right there with you. What's the change you would most like to create?

Tara Newman (31:09): So everything I do is around putting more money in the hands of women. The statistics on women and money are grime it best, and at the same time, it intersects with the online business culture that continues to drain women their bank accounts and their resources that are already finite. So, if I could get every woman to realize that they don't need to buy the $30,000 thing. If they want to, if they genuinely feel like that would be helpful to them, and the experience warrants that, okay, but it doesn't have to be that way. That's a choice. That's a choice is what I'm saying. I think that's a nuance that's missing.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (31:56): Yes. And if women had more money in their hands and weren't preyed upon by this online business space, what do you think the world would be like?

Tara Newman (32:08): Well, I think that we start to restore capitalism to some of its maybe original intent or to a more conscious and caring place, because I am definitely pro capitalism, I'm just anti-cronyism, and there's a lot of similarities between cronyism and web celebs in the online business culture. And so, we're just continuing to propagate that behavior and collude with it in a different space while being told that it's different, but it's not.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (32:41): Yeah. Well, thank you, Tara. And you have an incredible calculator that you give to everyone for free. So let people know where they can pick up the revenue calculator, because I find it incredibly useful in figuring out how much money I need to bring in through my business and tell us where people can find you online.

Tara Newman (33:03): Yeah. So the Revenue Goal Calculator can be received at theboldleadershiprevolution.com/revenue. That is the Revenue Goal Calculator, and like Michelle said, you kind of put in your personal expenses, the things you want to pay for in your actual life, and then it translates into the amount of revenue you need to generate in your business, as well as gives you some other goodies in there as well. I've got the podcast, the Bold Money Revolution podcast, and on Instagram at the Tara Newman.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (33:33): So do check out the revenue calculator because it is a brilliant tool that's going to give you some instant clarity about what you need to be doing in your business. And check out Tara's podcast. It's awesome. It's on my a weekly playlist. So if you enjoyed this conversation, go check Tara out. And Tara, thank you so much for being with me today.

Tara Newman (33:55): Thanks for having me back.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (33:57): Well, that was a barn burner of a conversation. Now, there are a few things that I took away. The first big takeaway, when in doubt, zoom out. This economy is a hiccup and we need to zoom out and stay focused on the bigger vision for our business during this time. My second big takeaway is focus on what you can control, because there are so many things in this economy that we cannot control: inflation, the supply chain. But when you actually zoom in and think about what in your business you can control, there are things that you can tweak and do to make sure that this is a successful time for your business. And my final takeaway was build your money making skills, work on your sales skills, develop your messaging, stay relevant in the mind of your customers.

(35:01): I'd love to know what you took away from this conversation. So hit me up at drmichellemazur on Instagram and let me know your biggest aha moment from today's show.

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