Rebel Uprising Podcast

Don’t Like Marketing? Here’s What You Need at the Minimum


Do you ever wish that you didn’t have to market your business at all?

Do you wish that you could spend all of your time delivering your programs and working with your fantastic clients instead of trying to find the next client?

Well, I’ve got some good news, some bad news, and some even better news for you.

The good news is that there’s a very good reason why experts hate marketing their businesses. The bad news is that you still have to do it, especially if you have dreams of delivering group programs, writing a book, or just making more of an impact in more people’s lives.

But the even better news? There are steps that you can take to make marketing an easier lift in your business.

And that’s what I’m sharing today.



In this episode:

  • Why experts suck at marketing, and why you need to learn to do it anyway
  • Why your business needs a Minimum Viable Meaningful Messages
  • Three sets of messages to grow, engage, and offer your work

Learn more about Michelle Mazur:



Listen on your favorite podcast player or read the Transcript below:

Dr. Michelle Mazur (00:00): Do you ever wish that you didn't have to market your business at all, that you could spend all your time delivering your programs and working with your fantastic clients instead of trying to find the next client? Well, I've got some good news, some bad news, and some even better news for you. The good news is that there is a very good reason that experts hate marketing. The bad news is you still have to do it, especially if you have dreams of delivering group programs, writing a book, or just making more of an impact in more people's lives. But finally, the even better news is there are steps you can take to make marketing an easier lift for your business. So let's talk about that.

(01:07): Get ready for the Rebel Uprising podcast, the only podcast dedicated to business owners who feel overlooked for their expertise, skills, and experience. Let's claim your expertise and turn your complex ideas into unmistakable messaging that grows your business. I am your host, Dr. Michelle Mazur, the author of the 3 Word Rebellion and your rebel troop telling guide to building a business that gets noticed. I realize that I am kind of a freak because I love marketing. I love figuring out how to lead people to my work. What do I need to say? What misconceptions do I need to bust? What problems are my people struggling with?

(01:54): I mean, it's why I do the work I do. I love figuring out what makes you unique and how to build an argument for your work that you can then use in your marketing to make people hire you. I also realize that most experts do not love this. Last September during the 3 Word Rebellion book club that was focusing specifically on how experts can use their 3 Word Rebellion to amplify their expertise, during a podcast about owning your expertise, I talked about the overlooked expert phenomenon, which is inspired by Michael Lewis's podcast, Against the Rules.

(02:38): In his podcast, he talks about why experts tend to be underrecognized and the unsung heroes of their field, and he explains why in this conversation he had with Sean Illing, the host of Vox Conversations.

Speaker 2 (02:57): This is a point you make in the show that most valuable experts we have basically have a massive PR problem. I mean, actual experts just aren't very good at selling themselves, which is perhaps why we need the Michael Lewis's of the world to spin their successes and to a good old-fashioned yarn, because experts will never be able to do that, right? I mean, they'll never be able to do that. Someone has to tell their story.

Speaker 3 (03:20): They do suck at telling their story. This is true as a rule, not always, but as a rule. And part of the reason is the kind of people who sit there thinking about how to market themselves aren't the kind of people who are developing these exquisite expertises. The kind of person who develops the expertise, it's essentially a local thing. It's a narrow, specialized thing, and they're thinking about how to broadcast it and how to make themselves famous and all that.

Dr. Michelle Mazur (03:43): That last sentence. Experts aren't thinking about how to broadcast their expertise. They're not thinking about how to make themselves known to others. They don't think about how to make their expertise meaningful to others, and I get why. In the Rebel Expert Manifesto, principle number two is curiosity is power. You are curious about your own expertise, how it applies in the lives of your clients. You're curious about how you do, what you do, and you're always extending your knowledge about that. You're also curious about what your expertise does for people once they experience it. And you know what? That's fine. That works if you want to just rely on word of mouth marketing and depending on your business model, that might be enough for you. But if you want more, which is awesome if you do, and more being maybe you want a group program, maybe you want to be speaking on stages.

(04:56): Maybe you want to have a book or a traditionally published book deal, but you want to have more of a ripple effect of change in more people's lives. If you want that, then you've got to figure out how to translate your expertise into a message that is meaningful and useful to the people who could benefit deeply from your work. Then you've got to broadcast that expertise, market it. As I've been thinking about the Expert Up Club, the community that I am creating to support experts to get known and hired for their work, I realize there are three key pillars that business owners need in order to become known and paid for their expertise. And the first pillar is about making marketing, the thing you don't want to do, a far easier lift for your business. And the way to do that is to translate your expertise into a message that makes sense to other people who can benefit from what it is you do. I've been really noodling on what's the fastest way to do that and I am calling it the minimum viable meaningful message, your MVMM.

(06:25): I love the mm part because it feels like relief, and I think once you have a message that feels like relief because it's going to make your marketing easier. So for your MVMM, there are three sets of key messages that you need for this to work in your marketing. The first set of messages I call grow messages. These messages are about attracting the right audience, not an audience of everyone. This isn't about going viral or being internet famous, but it's about attracting your right people. And the way to create these messages is to become absolutely obsessed with who your people are before they come into contact with your work. And here's the thing that I see all the time when I work with my one-on-one clients, they come to me, they are brilliant. Their clients are getting results. They are obsessed with how they do the work.

(07:33): They are obsessed with who their clients become after they experience the work. They love seeing that ripple effect of change. But when I start asking them questions about who their people are before they come in contact with the work, that's where the struggle is. So understanding that is key to growing your audience that is filled with people who are the right people for your work. So grow messaging, that's the first set. The second set is about engage messaging. This is a set of messages that get people ready for your work. What does it look like when someone is ready to work with you? What do they know? What insights have they had? What do they believe? What must they believe before they work with you? What misconceptions have they bust through? And how does your solution meet them where they are? And I'm not talking the nitty grit nitty details of your solution, but that high level philosophical framework that you have.

(08:53): So you need those sets of messages basically to get people ready for your work, to nurture them, to help them speak the language of your work. And the final set of messages are the offer set. This is where your solution comes in. And I'll be honest, this is where you're probably spending most of your time marketing right now, and it's also the reason why your marketing isn't working for you. Because when we're talking about our offer, the solution, we're basically assuming the people we're talking to have moved through the other phases, the other sets, they already know that they're the right people and that you're talking to them, they're ready to hear what it is you have to offer. Let's face it, you're brilliant at applying what you do to your clients' problem, but most people aren't ready to hear it yet. So you probably already have this set of messages.

(10:01): It might need some zhuzhing up to simplify it because one thing I know about my experts is they love to give all the detail and all the nuance. And nuance is awesome when someone is working with you. It's not so great for marketing. So once you have your minimum viable, meaningful message, your MVMM, you can then apply that messaging to your marketing and create assets to market your business, which is going to make marketing way easier and far more effective for you. And I don't ever expect you to fall in love with marketing. You don't have to love marketing like I do to make it effective. However, having your MVMM is going to make it far easier for you to spend more time with your clients instead of marketing your business. And finally, know that you don't have to create these three sets of messages alone.

(11:13): In fact, it's going to be way harder if you do. We do not see our expertise clearly or why it's meaningful to other people. So if you want support and collaboration with a group of other kick-ass experts, the Expert Up Club is going to start accepting founding members soon. And you can get on the waitlist at, plus you'll get the Rebel Expert Manifesto. Or you know what, you can always reach out to me via email, Just put expert up in the subject line and I can send you some details. Remember, there are people out there right now who need your expertise, and you have a mandate to communicate that expertise so they can find you. Hey, rebel, wouldn't it be amazing if people just recognized your expertise on the spot and decided to hire you? Of course it would, but we know business doesn't work that way.

(12:19): Instead, you have to show up and market. And let's face it, marketing has not been your jam and it feels like it doesn't work for your business, and there's a reason for that. In order to market effectively so you grab attention and lead people to your offer, it takes having a one of a kind message and an ability to build the case for why people should hire you. And that's exactly what will create in the 3 Word Rebellion messaging intensive. Yes, we will co-create your 3 Word Rebellion, but you'll also create all of the other messaging your business needs to efficiently and effectively show up and market your business while translating your expertise into a message your clients want to know more about. Interested in that? Then let's chat. Go to That's the number, and book a free consultation with me.

(13:28): I look forward to helping you get your message out in the world so that more people can hire you. If the Rebel Uprising podcast is helping you claim and communicate your expertise so that your clients can find and hire you, please share the show with a friend. The easiest way to do that is through Podlink. You can find the show at, and that page will allow anyone you share the show with to subscribe and start listening in their favorite podcast player. That's The Rebel Uprising podcast is a production of Yellow House Media. Our production coordinator is Lou Blazer. Our production assistant is Emily Kilda. The podcast is edited by Steven Mills. Our executive producers are Sean and Tara McMullen. The Rebel Uprising podcast is recorded on the unseated traditional land of the Coast Salish Peoples, specifically the First People of Seattle, the Duwamish people, original stewards of the land, past and present.

Create Your One-of-a-Kind Message

Your 3 Word Rebellion is the Key to Growing Your Business & Impact

Yes! I’m ready to rebel!

Pin It on Pinterest

Share This



Create your one-of-a-kind message that is the ultimate hook and the message you want to be known for!

The 3 Word Rebellion is the key to go from business owner to thought leader.

Read our Privacy Notice. Unsubscribe anytime.