Rebel Uprising Podcast

Four Ways Experts Are Making Marketing Suck Less



This show freely admits that marketing is freaking hard.

And I, for one, am sick and tired of the web celebs telling me how easy marketing can be if I only had their super secret plan.

I've sat in boardrooms of Fortune five hundred companies with teams of super smart people who can't figure out why a marketing campaign flopped. If huge teams are struggling to make it work, Then it's 100% normal that you are too.

So today, I wanted to outline 4 different ways expert business owners like you are making marketing suck less. In fact, I wanted you to hear it in their own words. So let's do this.

(Click play or read the transcript below.)

In this episode:

  • Brad discusses his significant breakthrough around his own messaging
  • Rebecca shares how the Expert Up Club is making her marketing so much easier
  • Pauline explains why the community is not icky nor sleazy
  • Laura highlights the importance of the workshops hosted in the Club
  • Why Diann doesn’t want to be the smartest person in the community

Learn more about Michelle Mazur:



Listen on your favorite podcast player or read the Transcript below:

Michelle Mazur [00:00:00]: This show freely admits that marketing is freaking hard.

And I, for one, am sick and tired of the web celebs telling me how easy marketing can be if I only had their super secret plan.

I've sat in boardrooms of Fortune five hundred companies with teams of super smart people who can't figure out why a marketing campaign flopped. If huge teams are struggling to make it work, Then it's 100% normal that you are too.

So today, I wanted to outline 4 different ways expert business owners like you are making marketing suck less. In fact, I wanted you to hear it in their own words. So let's do this.

Michelle Mazur [00:00:50]: Welcome to Make Marketing Suck Less. The podcast that knows marketing is freaking hard, especially when you're a solo business owner trying to juggle it all.

I'm your host, Dr. Michelle Mazur, author of the 3 Word Rebellion and founder of the ExpertUp Club.

Forget the latest marketing fads and tactics promising social media stardom. I'm here with research-backed strategies to help you clarify your message and get twice as effective with your marketing.

And while I can't promise you'll ever love marketing, I'm here. to make you hate it a tiny bit less.

Michelle Mazur [00:01:38]: For years, I have asked myself one question. How can I help experts who are qualified who get clients results? How do I help them get known and hired for their work?

Because this quotation, and I've said it many times before on the show, it haunts me. It's from Michael Lewis who is the author of Moneyball and host of the podcast Against The Rules. And he said, the kind of people who sit there thinking about how to mark themselves aren't the kind of people who are developing these exquisite expertises.

And that's you. You're the one who has the exquisite expertise.

And what we so commonly see in the marketplace is the people who are best at marketing get the client and they might not necessarily be getting their client's results.

So there is this divide. And that is one of the reasons I created the Expert Up Club. So that I could bring together a community of experienced business owners and help them be seen and hired.

Because really what I want to see, I wanna see us flood the zone with experts. I want us to drown out the noise that the web celebs make. And I want you to be hired for your expertise. I want people to pay you exquisitely well. This solves a huge problem in our industry that if the best qualified people are landing the clients, then problems get solved. People aren't getting duped.

Let's flood the marketplace with experts. And that is what the Expert Up Club is all about. We are still in our inaugural year, but I wanted to show 4 different ways. It's helping establish business owners, just like you, make marketing, suck less, make their work more visible to the people who need it.

We're gonna be talking about those 4 different ways. So the first is clarifying your message. Second is simplifying marketing, third is access to me, which feels very self-indulgent, but I'm not the one who's talking about that, thankfully. And finally, the community.

Let's start first with clarifying your message. In Episode 329, I talked about the relationship between messaging and marketing. And how, if you want to make your marketing effective, if you want to make it take less time, you have to have your message dialed in because if you don't know what to say, then you're just throwing spaghetti against the wall.

You have to know what to say - have that message strategy in place first - before you start broadcasting, before you start amplifying it to attract your audience and your clients.

I wanted to kick off this very special episode with Brad Powell. He is the owner of Awesome Videomakers and he had a pretty significant breakthrough around his own messaging and who he was talking to. So here's Brad.

Brad Powell [00:05:30]: I'm Brad Powell, and I am the founder of Awesome Videomakers where I help experts and entrepreneurs get their message out and share their expertise using short-form video.

The thing that's been working really well is that, yeah, I have been improving my message. I've been improving the way that I talk about and think about the work that I'm doing.

Just for one example, we were on a Q&A call, and one of the other members was getting a review of her LinkedIn page. And so I raised my hand and said, “OK. let's look at mine. I've been working on it for a while.” And I found out that I've been talking about my work from the point of view of two different kinds of people.

There's the kind of person who is afraid of video, they're camera shy, and they really need a lot of help and nurturing to get over that hurdle, but then there's another group of people who have no problem getting on camera. They just don't have the time to do it. And of course, this group is probably the group that I wanna talk to the most. So instead of having messaging on my page and all over the place that's talking to two different kinds of clients. Now I can focus just on one. It's so great!

Michelle Mazur [00:06:45]: It’s always amazing to me how one small observation can make a huge difference in your message and in your marketing.

Because when you're talking to two different types of people in your marketing, and one of those types is not at all ready to work with you yet, that is a heavier lift. That makes marketing more difficult than it needs to be.

Thank you, Brad, for sharing that insight of how the Expert Up Club has helped you with your messaging.

Now I wanna focus specifically on making your marketing easier because being a solo business owner, you're juggling a lot. There's a ton on your plate from client work, admin, all the damn emails all the time. Marketing can feel like a monumental task because it's so complicated. Or the way that it is taught in online business makes it so complicated.

That's why I wanted you to hear from Rebecca West and how the Club is making marketing feel like an easier lift for her. After being in business for 15 years. Here's Rebecca.

Rebecca West [00:08:09]: I'm Rebecca West. I am currently making a big transition from 15 years as a residential interior designer to focusing completely on my business coaching for other residential interior designers.

I really wanted a community of other driven entrepreneurial experts to call friends and colleagues. The second is marketing is really annoying and dumb and stupid. Like, I love marketing conceptually because it's a cool game, but when money's on the line, when it's your money on the line, it's no longer a cool game. It's just this really obnoxious mountain that you have to climb.

I was hoping surrounded by these other experts and led by you (Michelle) because, of course, I've known your work for a long, long time, I could climb that mountain with more ease. Some of the things that have I I would almost say they have delighted me more than surprised me. I'm delightedly surprised by the caliber of people in the group and how warm and generous everybody has been.

You know, when you first joined the new group, you're kinda wondering how it'll go? You know, like, you're joining a new group of friends. Will they be your friends? And I've been delighted by how warm and engaged everybody is. And also by how vulnerable everybody is asking for help, which allows me to do the same thing.

And then I've just been utterly delighted and surprised by how clearer marketing feels with the model that you're (Michelle) sharing with us. Like, as I'd said to you on a different in a different time, marketing feels like it sucks less now just like your tagline promises it well. Because it's focused on what do we do and how are we gonna talk about it? It just feels simpler than I've ever felt about it before.

Michelle Mazur [00:09:57]: After 15 years, what Rebecca has learned in the Expert Up Club has helped her simplify her market and has given her a plan to move forward with it more effectively than ever before.

If you're interested in how the Expert Up Club can help you clarify your message or make marketing a whole lot simpler, I invite you to join me and other members of the club for the Expert Up Club Open House. You'll see exactly what's inside the community and how it supports you in getting known and hired for your work.

The Open House happens next week, Wednesday, September 20th at 10 AM Pacific, 1 pm Eastern, and you can sign up at That's (Openhouse is all one word.)

Now I have a question for you. Have you ever joined a program where the leader made you feel like a VIP during the sales process, but then completely disappeared during the program, rarely to be seen again? I've had that happen to me, and it really sucks. Like, that sucks when you buy into something and you're not getting what you expected. And it's also happened to our next expert Pauline Wiles. And she wanted to let you know about her experience in the Expert Up Club and how it's different.

Pauline Wiles [00:11:41]: Hello. I'm Pauline Wiles. I'm a website designer. I specialize in websites for consultants and authors. I decided to join the Expert Up Club because I was looking for a small community of established business owners where there's a focus on marketing, but without being icky or sleazy.

And I know my message for how I differentiate myself from other people who provide this similar service, I knew that could definitely use some work. The thing that tipped the balance for me was how willing the existing members were to show up and take part in the process of enrolling the new people, that really spoke volumes to me.

So I haven't been a member long, but I especially like how Michelle is breaking down the messaging work into really bite-sized pieces. That feels very doable. And, the tips for using AI to lighten the workload, those tips have been super helpful. What surprised me most about the Expert Up Club is the amount of access to Michelle herself.

The number of sessions she's personally running for us. It seems like her almost daily involvement in the community. This is not one of those memberships where you're made to feel like a VIP during the enrollment period, and then the guru all but disappears and you have no access to her. It seems like Michelle is really working her socks off to make this work for the members.

Michelle Mazur [00:13:21]: Thank you, Pauline, for recognizing that I am indeed working my socks off to create this community. And it is one of my most favorite things that I get to do in my business is being with this community.

While access to me is great, you will definitely get feedback on your messaging, your marketing, and your copy, and more. One of the things that has surprised me most about the Expert Up Club is the community itself.

I spent six months developing this community. And everyone told me that no one would join because of the community aspect. They'd want to clarify their message, simplify their marketing strategy, create marketing plans, and get my feedback and support. But if you ask me and you ask most of the members, what makes the club unique - is its people.

And one of the things that blew me away recently, is one of the members of our club posted a sales page she wanted feedback on. And it happened on a Friday afternoon, and I was feeling a little crispy. So I was like, alright. I'm gonna come back first thing Monday morning and give her feedback on her sales page. And then a funny thing happened, when I logged back in on Monday, there were about six people who had already commented giving amazing feedback on this sales page. And then what was really cool is that I could focus on higher level things because they took care of some of the major messaging feedback that I would normally have to give.

So that's my experience with the members in the club and how giving and generous and amazing they all are, but I don't want you to take my word for it. I want you to hear it from Laura, Diane, and Brad, who you met in the section on messaging. So you'll hear from Laura first.

Laura Gatsos Young [00:15:39]: Hi, my name is Laura Gatsos Young, and I'm a copywriter and marketing consultant. I joined the Expert Up Club because I was looking to connect and engage with peers who were also experts in their field and navigating similar challenges and opportunities that I am in my own business.

I worked with Michelle, to create my 3 Word Rebellion “Belong To Your Customer”, and I loved the result and how she applied her expertise to her work. I was surprised by the level of engagement and the rich conversations that happen inside the group. The members are active almost every day, and I have the opportunity to get feedback almost in real time on questions I have or things I'm working on.

I'm also really impressed by the workshops that Michelle hosts as they are so in-depth and actionable. If you're looking to create, your messaging or update your messaging as your business evolves, the workshops and resources will definitely help you do it. If you're looking for an engaged and helpful community of experts who are serious business owners, and you feel you could benefit from getting insight into your own business and feedback from others that you trust on your work, I highly recommend the Expert Up Club. You'll meet people from different industries who are experts at what they do.

Michelle Mazur [00:16:52]: Next up, we have Diane.

Diane Wingert [00:16:55]: Hey there. I'm Diane Wingert, a No-BS therapist turned business coach for ambitious outliers. I'm also the host of the Driven Woman Entrepreneur podcast. I decided to join the Expert Up Club for a few reasons.

I had already been a fan and follower of Dr. Michelle Mazur's work for the last few years. But I'm also an extrovert. And even though I have adapted to working from home online, I was especially drawn to the prospect of not just being mentored by Michelle, but meeting others who are also attracted to her invitation to what I call “stand up, show up, and speak up”.

Legitimate experts who often struggle with imposter syndrome, perfectionism, and just fear of being seen, meanwhile, plenty of other people who are really naturally good at marketing, but don't know as much as we do are literally passing us by and serving the clients that we should be serving. So I was really attracted to meet other people who responded to that kind of message. Because no matter how much experience, wisdom, or credentials you have, being both able and willing to confidently share your unique genius, is an act of courage.

And you don't always wanna be the smartest person in the room. You know, a lot of the other group programs and memberships I've experienced were filled with people who were either brand new to being in business for themselves, or they needed a lot of guidance and support. So they just never felt like legitimate peers to me.

One of the things that surprised me about the Expert Up Club is just how eager the other members have been to form meaningful relationships around being seen within the group. It's been so easy to get to know other members in a variety of ways, and people are both genuinely supportive, but also willing to open up a dialogue where we can have differences of opinions and nuance around things. And it's really what I've been looking for for a long time, and I've come to appreciate it. So so much.

Michelle Mazur [00:19:01]: And here's Brad.

Brad Powell [00:19:02]: As a solopreneur, we're all by ourselves. And it can be lonely, and it can be really hard when you're sitting inside the bottle to read the label on the outside to know, like, if your message is resonating and if you are saying things that will actually resonate with your audience.

So I thought, wow, you know, nothing better than to join a group of other experts. Some of the people who are even smarter than I am. What surprised me most about it, was that first of all, the group is really dedicated. Like, I've been amazed at how much participation there is and how much exchange there is that's very genuine. Anytime I've gone in and posted anything, I've gotten terrific responses, and I'm seeing this happen with pretty much every member of the group.

Michelle Mazur [00:19:53]: There you have it. Four ways experts are making marketing suck less by clarifying their message, simplifying their marketing, getting feedback from me, an expert in marketing and messaging, and being part of a community with people who are all doing the work.

If you want to know more about becoming a member of the Expert Up Club, then join us for the Open House. You'll see all the resources available to you to help you get known and hired for your work. Plus, you'll meet some of our amazing community members.

Go to to sign up. And I can't wait to meet you and support you in getting known and hired for your exquisite expertise.

A special shout out to Brad, Rebecca, Pauline, Laura, and Diane for participating in this episode and sharing how marketing can suck less for other business owners.

Michelle Mazur [00:21:00]: If the Make Marketing Suck Less pod is making your marketing more effective so that your clients can find and hire you, please share the show with a friend.

The easiest way to do that is through pod link. You can find the show at, and that page will allow anyone you share the show with to subscribe and start listening in their favorite podcast player.


The Make Marketing Suck Less podcast is a production of Communication Rebel. Our production coordinator is Jessica Gulley-Ward. The podcast is edited by Steven Mills, executive producer is me, Dr. Michelle Mazur.

The make marketing suck less podcast is recorded on the unseated traditional lands of the coast salish peoples, specifically the first people of Seattle, the Duwamish people, original stewards of the land, past, and present all.

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