Make Marketing Suck Less

Jessica Lackey [00:00:00]: “I want to make sure that if someone happens to find me when I'm not posting content, that they have a way to hear about me, learn about me - without me having to pump out content to the feed.”

Michelle Mazur [00:00:18]: Welcome to Make Marketing Suck Less. The podcast that knows marketing is freaking hard, especially when you're a solo business owner trying to juggle it all. I'm your host, Dr. Michelle Mazur, author of the 3 Word Rebellion and founder of the Expert Up Club. Forget the latest marketing fads and tactics promising social media stardom. I'm here with research-backed strategies to help you clarify your message and get twice as effective with your marketing. And while I can't promise you'll ever love marketing, I'm here. to make you hate it a tiny bit less.

Michelle Mazur [00:00:59]: Nothing makes me want to dive head first into a vat of lava like the thought of making a 7 second video to post on Reels or TikTok. And if you feel that way too, please know that you are not alone. This short form content craze has been rough on us experts who deal in nuance and depth, and it's time we stop beating ourselves up for not wanting to create short form content. But what do you do instead? Now this summer on the podcast, we are going behind the scenes of expertise driven businesses just like yours to unpack why marketing sucks and how these business owners adjusted to make it suck less.

Michelle Mazur [00:01:51]: And today, I'm talking to Jessica Lackey, who, like me, hates short form content, so she decided not to do it. And if you wanna know what she does instead, you'll just have to listen on. But before you do a bit about Jessica, she is a business and operations strategist who helps soloists and small teams build the business structures and systems for sustainable, profitable growth. With a background in corporate leadership, Mckenzie and Company Consulting, and a Harvard Business degree, Jessica knows a thing or two about hustle culture and what it feels like to judge success by the bottom line at all costs. So if you're singing the short form content blues, you'll love this conversation. And I'll catch you on the flip side with my big three takeaways. Jessica, welcome to make marketing suck less. I am so excited to have you on the show!

Jessica Lackey [00:02:53]: I'm excited to be here making my marketing suck less.

Michelle Mazur [00:02:57]: I'm excited to hear from you because you do have this focus on systems, and sometimes that's not, like, the sexiest topic to talk about. However, I wanna know first, what in the past has felt really hard about marketing for you? So why has it sucked?

Jessica Lackey [00:03:18]: When it comes to short form media, I am not funny. I am not hooky. I don't know how to write for the algorithm. I don't know how to make salacious headlines, and I'm not clickbaity. I just don't know how to do any of that. And trying to fit myself in that box, particularly on LinkedIn, has been soul crushing.

Michelle Mazur [00:03:42]: So what happens when you try to fit yourself into the box?

Jessica Lackey [00:03:48]: Well, one, it takes me forever in a day. But 2, LinkedIn, I am I've discovered that I am a writer first. I love to write. But on Instagram, you have to show up with the hooky reel, with the music, with the cap cut editing or the b roll. I don't even understand, like, why people enjoy b roll. If you do, that's all that's all for you, but, like, I don't I don't get it. But it has to have, like, a concept and a little story now. And then on LinkedIn, it has to be the format. I don't even wanna talk about LinkedIn. It makes me sad right now. But, like, on Instagram, the graphics are there. It takes so long. It takes so long. And I was just I did it. I did Instagram for a year, like, legit. And it sucked, and I hated it. And also it was, like, super disregulated from my nervous system.

Michelle Mazur [00:04:37]: Oh, why was that?

Jessica Lackey [00:04:39]: I'm checking all the time. I like I wake up and I'm like, who got the likes and what was my real count? I go to bed and I'm like, is there a comment? How can I connect with people in the DMs? Did people comment on my stories? It was on my phone and it was distracting me all the time And I was always like, okay, what are my what are my what are review count? What are my like count? What are my comment counts? And then I would get stuck in comparing it to other people's? Because, like, in LinkedIn, you can't, like, check out other people's profiles without them seeing it. But on Instagram, you can. And I just realized it was bad for my mental health and I wasn't good at it.

Michelle Mazur [00:05:20]: Yes. I feel both of those things really strongly. Like, I showed up on Instagram for, like, several years, and then they introduced reels. And I'm like, nope. I'm out. I'm not doing this shit because I just saw it as, like, what a time suck. Like, creating all of this video and finding the music and the editing, and I'm like, I don't I'm like you. Like, I don't do well with short form content. It's why I like podcasts. It's why I like having a newsletter. Like but trying to condense, like, your awesomeness, my awesomeness into 7 seconds, like, just forget about it.

Jessica Lackey [00:06:03]: Yeah. And I've also I'm as I've been doing this for now a few years, again, from a systems lens, I don't know if anyone's talked about this before. I don't know where I heard it from. Might have been one of our mutual friends, Jeremy. But this concept of feed based content versus playlist based content.

Michelle Mazur [00:06:18]: Oh, I have not heard about this.

Jessica Lackey [00:06:20]: Yeah. So feed based content, it's a depreciating asset. Right? You just you have to see it almost when it happens. Otherwise, if they didn't see it, they're never going to see it. Right? Like, it has to be consumed at the time of purchase, really. Because if you ever try to, like, go look at someone's Instagram is a little bit better than that. But LinkedIn, if you try to go see what people posted, you can’t. It's like mixed up in their posting and activity feed. It's a hot mess to see it. Playlist style content allows people to find you kind of wherever they find you and binge or consume really quickly consume all your content because it's curated for them in a playlist. So YouTube videos, podcasts, blogs, you could kind of argue that an email newsletter that doesn't get stored anywhere is a feed based content. Like if you didn't get the newsletter issue, you that asset does nothing for you. And so when I'm thinking about marketing as an asset building system

Michelle Mazur [00:07:12]: And that's a really good distinction because, yeah, things disappear really quickly on social media. It's hard to find them again. I just wanna circle back to one other thing. Why is LinkedIn making you sad?

Jessica Lackey [00:07:26]: There have been a couple of people that grew really fast on LinkedIn, because they started writing in a template style roughly at the end of 2020, beginning of 2021. And so now all things on LinkedIn are the same template, the same post, and they've gotten a little more ridiculous. I don't know if you are familiar with the the Reddit sub LinkedIn lunatics.

Michelle Mazur [00:07:47]: I am! It comes up in my Reddit feed.

Jessica Lackey [00:07:51]: So it's always, like, a one liner hook, a story, a selfie photo, and then a turn to, like, how does this matter for sales? And and I think it's the medium in which it's like, you're not really learning anything when you read the LinkedIn. You're just seeing a bunch of stuff. And it makes me sad to be there as a consumer because I'm like, this is just making me feel bad about myself. All the things I could be doing and I'm not.

Jessica Lackey [00:08:17]: it makes me feel bad as a producer, which is like, I have to conform to this stuff in order to get, you know, like, if if I if I really want to, like, juice my engagement, I just need to post a picture of myself or my dog, and then all the rest of my posts will get better traction after that.

Michelle Mazur [00:08:35]: Oh - What a game.

Jessica Lackey [00:08:36]: It's a game, and I can't it's it's an easier game to play than Instagram. I've gotten some clients from that. So I'm like, I'll play begrudgingly, but, I've also discovered writing short form makes it much harder to write long form.

Michelle Mazur [00:08:56]: Oh, that's really interesting. Why do you think that is?

Jessica Lackey [00:09:01]: Well, your brain is like constructing - I’m going to take this thought and do snippy hooks and you’ve seen the templates where they start small words and go to big words, and then they go down the short sentence. You can't see it because I'm like visually drawing it on the screen. But when you think like that, you think and you start to like, your brain starts to form formulate ideas in 200 to 300 word snippets. When that's the where I'm creating for, I have a hard time fleshing the ideas out into 1,000 word newsletters. If I take the 1,000 word newsletter and I chop it in the, chop it, you know, like my coaches calls it sawdust, like the social media is the sawdust from the long form creation process. But when I thought about creating for social media first, I was unable to think as long and hard about the kind of writing I wanna do for my newsletters.

Michelle Mazur [00:09:55]: Yeah. And I've noticed that with LinkedIn where it's just like I log in and everything seems exactly the same. Like, here's a picture of my newborn baby, like, what my wife's labor taught me about b2b sales. You're just like, what is wrong with you?

Jessica Lackey [00:10:16]: Now I like LinkedIn to support my friends. I like DMing with people. I like engaging with people in the comments. Like, that's really fun, and it's nice. But I use it as a engagement platform. I don't use it as a discovery platform.

Michelle Mazur [00:10:29]: That that's very helpful because we always talk in Expert Up Club about, like, grow, engage, offer, and understanding, like, Hey, this is not the place where new people are gonna find me, but this is a place where I can nurture people and have conversations with people. I think that's really helpful because we often think about, like, social media, especially LinkedIn. It's like, oh, well, it's a discovery platform. I can build a following, and then they'll wanna be on my email list. And knowing, like, what job it does, I think, is so critical and vital.

Jessica Lackey [00:11:00]: Yeah. I love I do like LinkedIn for it's got a it's a got a much stronger social map. So, for example, I did comment on someone's post and I'm like, I recognize that name. And it turns out we have a bunch of people in common and she heard about my work and I'd heard briefly about her work, and then so we're having a Zoom call. Right? But the goal is to get off of or for me is to get off the platforms. It's like, oh, we know a bunch of people in common. Cool. Let's take this let's take this offline.

Michelle Mazur [00:11:27]: Oh my gosh. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. So so what I'm hearing from you, it's like, you don't love short form content that makes marketing suck. Instagram and LinkedIn also can make marketing suck. So what decisions have you been making to start doing, like, less but better marketing that's more effective for your business?

Jessica Lackey [00:11:50]: So one, I quit Instagram, like, really quit. I put up a a static 12 grid last fall, and now I don't even now I'm on the platforms. I still check it for messages and things like that. But I'm really leaning into, again, long form content. So I did start a YouTube channel, which is more fun for me than effective at this point, but it's an asset. But, really, I'm leaning into my newsletter and a free class I teach every month. And people are like people are like, your newsletter, it's a product in and of itself.

Jessica Lackey [00:12:22]: And your class, you're literally teaching a free class once a month that is not a sales pitch. I'm like, yes. I am. And that is working.

Michelle Mazur [00:12:31]: Okay. So what I am on your newsletter list, so it is a very deep and juicy, and there's a lot going on. So what you love about writing it, and how has the response been from from your readers?

Jessica Lackey [00:12:52]: So what I love about writing it is it's a way for me to explore questions that I'm curious about. It's really aerating my intellectual property and helping me create a body of work. When you join the newsletter, I was literally writing a 6 part email series about the systems of business that has now been turned into blog posts that have, like, a bazillion links in them, and it's been turned into an assessment, and it's gonna be a keynote talk. Right? So it's not something that I'm creating outside of the rest of my content. It's really a place for me to, like, get my thoughts down on paper and hopefully they're useful to people. And they seem to be so far because that newsletter, people say they read it all the time and they're joining my programs because they've read my newsletter and they said this if she kind of gives this value away for free, then what am I gonna get when she works with me?

Jessica Lackey [00:13:43]: Yeah. And I love right? Again, it helps me again, I'm not just writing content. I'm putting together a public body of work that's gonna generate returns for me long in the future.

Michelle Mazur [00:13:57]: Yes. And are you also it sounds like you're also, like, repurposing, reusing, upcycling the content that you're creating.

Jessica Lackey [00:14:07]: Oh, yeah. The newsletter is the public shipping platform in a sense, but, like, the newsletter content comes from the book I'm writing, which informs the YouTube videos I'm creating, which go into the classes I teach, which go into the courses and programs I make. So it all feeds together. The newsletters helps me get more reps in. So as I think I taught a free class, 2 free classes, because I turned out I couldn't be just 1, on the systems of marketing and sales, not like the messaging, but more of like the actually running a marketing and sales system. I taught that in January, but for, like, the 3 months before that, I was researching and pulling it all together, that made up local and newsletter content.

Jessica Lackey [00:14:48]: And I'm like, it's not you know, know, so it's it's it's building on each other in this ecosystem I've created, which means that it's, it's easier to write because I'm always thinking about ideas because I'm trying to build out and explore questions. But I tend to go back and reference my newsletters a lot. There's a couple that I've, I did a series last summer about does the math math in your business. And that one, I didn't I wasn't, like, as good at putting my newsletters on my blog last year. And this one, I'm gonna need to repurpose that series because I'm like, I keep referencing a couple of these concepts over and over again, and I don't have them linked on my blog.

Michelle Mazur [00:15:23]: Oh, yeah. You definitely need that. And so what are you doing to grow your newsletter? Because it sounds like your newsletter is really this hub that's informing and driving all the other marketing that you're doing and the content that you're creating. So I know people are like, well, that's great. I love writing to my email list, but how are you getting new people on to your list?

We are gonna take a quick break before Jessica tells us what works to grow her audience.

Michelle Mazur [00:15:58]: Are you ready to stop doing marketing you hate? Because guess what? There's no one right way to market your business. You've got so many options. And this is why I created the market like an expert 7 day crash course to create a do less but better marketing strategy that creates demand for your offers and expertise.

It's time to discover your best option and create a marketing plan that doesn't suck the life out of you. So if that sounds good, go sign up at drrmichellemazur.com/mle. That's the letters M L E, or open your podcast app and click on market like an expert. Now back to the show.

Jessica Lackey [00:16:56]: So I do podcast guesting, like this one.

Michelle Mazur [00:17:01]: Surprise! Surprise! It’s actually very meta.

Jessica Lackey [00:17:02]: Yeah. And, actually, the most newsletters I've gotten or the subscribers I've gotten have been from guessing on podcasts with people I had a relationship with in a community. So I also join a lot of communities to get to know people. I'm like, you know, these are my these are my business collaborators. Let's get to know them. So, I've been on a couple of the Expert Up Club, their podcasts, and they've referred people to my newsletter, and I referred people to their newsletters and their products and services. So it's growing through collaborations. It goes through word-of-mouth because people are, they send it to their friends. So I'm you know, it's it's good enough to be shareable. And then I've done some podcast ads, some newsletter sponsorships, and I'm doing a summit sponsorship. So I'm in doing some aligned paid marketing in the sense of like, again, like, I'm funding creators that I like and, getting promotion to getting promotion to my newsletter in the process.

Michelle Mazur [00:18:04]: Yeah. So I'm also exploring that. Like, I'm doing my first, like, newsletter sponsorship spot. How has that been working for you?

Jessica Lackey [00:18:13]: Great. Great. I did a podcast ad back in last September and got, like, 3 people for my program. And then, of course, I send people her direction. I mean, it's very ecosystem friendly. But every newsletter sponsorship I've done has resulted in new subscribers and at least one new client.

Michelle Mazur [00:18:35]: Oh, that is that is really good to know. Well, because you have a well positioned newsletter and it's like, I think you and I have both have that in common. Like, we've created newsletters that are very well positioned. So at this point, like, I would never recommend, like, if you don't feel like you have your positioning nailed or your lead magnet nailed, like, don't do paid stuff. Right? But, like, once that's dialed in, I think it just becomes an easier way to get in front of new people. And you and you're supporting people you like.

Jessica Lackey [00:19:10]: Oh, yeah. I'm like, I would be happy to sometimes I just I'm doing a newsletter sponsorship next week, and I'm almost checking out. I was like, just take my money. Like, I'm just take my money. I'm not ready for it yet, because I was pulling something new together. But I think what's the newsletter is, like, just a part of the ecosystem. Again, in the newsletter is a free class. And in the newsletter, it's also linked to YouTube video. And I have, you know, a series of I a private podcast of, like, 30 podcast interviews at this point. It's all listed. It's on my website. So the newsletter is not the, there's a a rule from Google. It's like people need to hear from you 7 times for 11 hours in 4 locations or it's 11 it's 7 hours 11 times in 4 locations, one of the 2. But so they're not just reading my newsletter. They're reading my newsletter.

Jessica Lackey [00:19:55]: They're potentially watching YouTube channel. They're coming to a class. They're engaging with something else that I so it's part of a whole. It's not just, like, read my newsletter and all my stuff. It's, like, read my newsletter, come to a bunch of free stuff, watch things, see me in multimedia action. And that's why I think newsletter with podcast is really great because they get on your newsletter, but then they hear you talk, and they just get to spend more time with you.

Michelle Mazur [00:20:21]: I agree. Like, I always it was really funny, one of the new members of the Expert Up Club, we, like, jumped on a call for the private tour, and she's like, how's your bells palsy? Because I talked about it on the podcast and in the newsletter, and she was just like she's like, oh, that feels really weird because you don't know me. And I'm like, no, it's fine. Really. It is.

Jessica Lackey [00:20:42]: But I think that's, you know, like the newsletter only works because it is a part of a more content ecosystem where if they hear about me, they can learn more about me without having to find me and see me on social media consistently pumping out new content.

Michelle Mazur [00:20:57]: Yes. Yes. And I'm curious. Like, tell me about the free classes that you host every month. Like, how do you decide what you're going to teach? And, yeah, just, like, what's what does that look like for you?

Jessica Lackey [00:21:13]: I am slowing them down once every two months because I'm, switching things up with the the membership, and I've you know, there'll be some other new things that are coming. But, really, it's like, what questions do I tend to get from my private clients that aren't addressed in my content anywhere else? So, it's like everyone, like, you know, again, 6 months ago, people are like, well, how do I sell? And I'm like, you know what? I'm not a sales expert, but let me go research this, and that's where that came from. And then as I was doing that, I think I did, like, a class on networking and, like, how to map your network because that was a challenge for my private clients, in my classes. This month's if you're hearing this in August, my July classes, it's what do I do for my business? What do I do? And the reason that's the the title of the class is a lot of people, you know, you have a free calendar, you're like, you know, your to do list has a bazillion things on you. You're like, what am I supposed to actually do? And so this is going to be teaching about the 3 different aspects of your business, building your systems, running your systems, and then being in the business with clients and delivery. Because everyone puts those 3, they put those 3 tasks all in one to do list, and they put them all in the one with the same context. From a time block perspective. I'm like, well, no wonder you're not doing any of these things. They all belong in, like, different containers.

Michelle Mazur [00:22:33]: Yeah.

Jessica Lackey [00:22:33]: So that was a question from my deeper foundations group program. And so I'm like, oh, well, I bet other people have this question, so I'm gonna teach on it. And I don't think I've done this before.

Michelle Mazur [00:22:45]

Yeah. And you're not making any kind of pitch. That's great.

Jessica Lackey [00:22:52]: I'm like I mean, I make up in a sense of, like, if you'd like to join,I have 3 I have 3 pictures. If you like the the vault of all these classes, you can join my membership. If you like more help implementing this stuff, I've got a group program and a 1 on 1. But I'm really a firm believer that, especially in the Instagram space, everyone's like, I'll sell you the secret. And I'm like, I'll tell you the secret. I'll tell you the secret right now.

Jessica Lackey [00:23:17]: Like, I'll tell you the secret. I will tell you everything I know about building a business, and I will do it for free because of all the shit we see online. Like, that's my that's my personal dharma, but I'm like, there's so much information out there. The real thing people pay for is support implementing. And I'm like, that's paid, but the knowledge is free.

Michelle Mazur [00:23:40]: Yeah. It's always like I go back to, it's like the what and the why, and the how is really usually typically hard to execute, especially if you're doing anything strategic consulting wise. I know from a messaging viewpoint, it's hard to, like, see your message clearly without somebody else's point of view. So, I mean, it makes a lot of sense. That was the strategy behind, like, the 3 Word Rebellion book. I was like, here, Go. Do it. Best of luck. And some people are able to figure it out, and other people need more support and more help, and it just makes sense.

Jessica Lackey [00:24:16]: And the people that had come into my programs, they're like, yeah. I knew exactly what I was getting. Like, I'm probably actually really bad at sales and I'm probably not great at marketing. But what I lack in, like, clarity and message and sales skills, I make up for with transparency and what I call relentless consistency. I'm like, I show up every Sunday, 10 AM. People read it. They know it. They know what to expect. And when they come to the free calls, they've spent enough time with me to be like, oh, yeah. She's she's, you know, she's not salesy. She's not pushy. If I need to work with her, I will. And that has been a really powerful like, a lot of people charge for like webinars and stuff like that. I'm like, I'm not gonna make my money off low ticket stuff. I just don't have the audience size for it. So why not make it free? And then people, when they're ready to work with me, they can.

Michelle Mazur [00:25:05]: Yeah, that's a great, that's a great strategy. All right. So one last question before we wrap up and we tell people how to join your fabulous newsletter. But now that you've, like, you've ditched LinkedIn, put up your static 12 grid or whatever the heck it's called, and you're using LinkedIn differently, and you're doing all of these things that really play to your strengths, whether it's teaching, whether it's writing. How do you feel about marketing your business now?

Jessica Lackey [00:25:41]: I don't even I know it's marketing. Like, I'm really thinking about the marketing system. What are my activities to grow my audience? What are my activities to engage my audience? How am I making offers? But I actually don't think of it as marketing. I think of it as I'm gonna teach what I love to talk about. I'm going to introduce it to new people. I'm going to help as many people as possible. I have an intro call, an intro question on my, my email list, which is, like, what are you struggling with? I got it from Josh Spector. And I get people emailing me back and I, like, send them, like, really detailed responses, and I send them articles of things I've written.

Jessica Lackey [00:26:20]: I send them resources to other other people if, like, their big challenge is something that I know someone's an expert in. I sent them to your marketing audit. I'm like, you should take this. And that feels of service without being hard to do. So I'm like, I like marketing. It sucks less because I'm just doing what I love to do in a format I love to do it and making sure I hit all the stages, of course. Like, that would be the system aspect of me. Now if I feel like if I didn't have a growth strategy, also on the creator network, which has been great, but if I didn't have, like, some reliable things to grow my audience, I think I would be less excited about writing my newsletter, but I have that covered.

Michelle Mazur [00:27:02]: Yeah. I mean, it's interesting for me because I mean, I'm a messaging. I'm a marketing person. So it's like, yeah, I do actually enjoy marketing, but, like, I love doing podcasts. Like, this is a lot of fun for me having these conversations. I love writing my newsletter every single week. Like, I look forward to it because like you, it's something that plays to our strengths. So we don't we're not like, time to make the donuts. I've gotta go, like, post on social media where no one's ever going to see it. Like, we're doing things that are actually meaningful to us and meaningful to others.

Jessica Lackey [00:27:41]: Yeah. And I think there's the secret that, social media helps you scale. And I'm like, I like doing things that don't scale because it's actually, for me, much quicker much quicker things that don't scale because it's actually for me a much quicker return. So everyone's like, oh my God, I don't have like time for 5 coffee chats a week. And I'm like, you have time to post on social media and spend some people spend, like, hours and hours and hours on the newsletter. I'm like, that's great. You don't have time to, like, join a couple communities and have some Voxer chats with some friends? That’s a choice - I choose investing in relationships with people that I can support and they can support me and it's relational, even though that “doesn't scale” because I don't need it to because I build a business that doesn't need it. And by the way, it's helping me scale.

Michelle Mazur [00:28:27]: Mhmm. It's interesting to me in a community where we're both in. I posted about, like, what was working, and I was talking about, like, the private tours I do for the Expert Up Club. And they're like, but that doesn't scale. And I'm like, that is not the point. I was like, my competitive advantages is caring more about people and making sure that this is a fit for them and making sure that they're making the right decision and then shepherding them in once they decide. I was like, I don't care about scaling. I care about caring.

Jessica Lackey [00:29:04]: That should be a phrase that gets plastered all over the Internet for you.

Michelle Mazur [00:29:09]: Thank you. I just said it for the first time!

Jessica Lackey [00:29:12]: It's great. I think it's like, I'm in a bunch of a couple of programs I mean, I'm like an over partially, I also, like, teach for free because I'm an over consumer of information and I don't have children. And I like doing this for people. Like, I'm like, I can distill information, so why not do that as, like, my act of service to the world? But someone's like, oh, I'll teach you how to get more clients without sales calls. I'm like, never take away my sales calls. Never. Like, I mean, sure. Like, for, like, a low ticket offer. Sure. But for any of my programs where I'm gonna, like, be talking to you, I wanna get you on the phone. I wanna know who's enrolling in my programs in my world. I wanna make sure it's the right fit. I want to tell people if it's not the right fit and be like, don't invest here. Go somewhere else. But, like, I'm like yeah. Sales calls on scale. Please never take away my sales calls.

Michelle Mazur [00:30:04]: Yeah. No. I love sales conversations because I get to know somebody. And even if they decide that this isn't the right move, like, I still got to build a relationship or I got to point them in the right direction. Like, I love that relational aspect.

Jessica Lackey [00:30:20]: Oh, I think that's what, like, what you said is, like, what makes marketing suck less for me is it's not marketing my business. It's building relationships with a business community that I deeply respect and wanna work with. And that's when I think about it is how many souls am I touching? How many people am I building a relationship with? That's when I'm like, then the marketing is working.

Michelle Mazur [00:30:44]: I love that. Alright, Jessica, tell us how we can join your newsletter.

Jessica Lackey [00:30:48]: So you can join my newsletter by going to jessicalackey.com/newsletter. Has its own little dedicated page, and you can see some lovely reviews from, some of our collective, from our collective community, and I love writing it.

Michelle Mazur [00:31:03]: Yeah. And I highly recommend it. It is a very good read for your Sunday mornings. So thank you for that, Jessica. And thank you for being on the show.

Jessica Lackey [00:31:16]: Thank you.

Michelle Mazur [00:31:18]: I absolutely adored how open Jessica was about how social media in short form content did not play to her strengths. She is so clear about how she wants to market. And the bottom line is don't create content that doesn't play to your strengths, that doesn't let you shine. If you love short form, do it. And if it's not a good fit for you, know you have other choices. Additionally, I love Jessica's insights about feed based versus playlist content and how feed based, it's temporary. It disappears really quickly. But playlists are forever, my friend. I think the more that we can tap into having a playlist that allows people to binge our content and get ready for the work we do, the less marketing sucks. And I also appreciated how Jessica views marketing as an ecosystem.

Michelle Mazur [00:32:25]: Like, everything that she's creating, whether it's the book she's working on or this podcast interview or what she's sending to her newsletter list, it is a system that she can repurpose, reuse, and upcycle. No more of this one and done and forget about it creation. The way you make marketing suck less is to do less creation for your marketing. Instead, look at the ways you can create an asset and ask yourself how you can use it in multiple ways.

Michelle Mazur [00:33:03]: If the Make Marketing Suck Less pod is making your marketing more effective so that your clients can find and hire you, please share the show with a friend. The easiest way to do that is through pod link. You can find the show at pod.link/rebel, and that page will allow anyone you share the show with to subscribe and start listening in their favorite podcast player.

That's pod.link/rebel.

The Make Marketing Suck Less podcast is a production of Communication Rebel. Our production coordinator is Jessica Gulley-Ward. The podcast is edited by Steven Mills, our executive producer is me, Dr. Michelle Mazur.

The make marketing suck less podcast is recorded on the unseated traditional lands of the coast salish peoples, specifically the first people of Seattle, the Duwamish people, original stewards of the land, past, and present.