Make Marketing Suck Less

Amplifying Whats Working To Grow Your Audience: A Candid Conversation

Michelle: Hey, hey rebels this week I wanted to give you a sneak peek behind the scenes of what is happening in my business because right now I am very focused on growing my audience and the reason that I want to grow my audience is because I have the 3 Word Rebellion book and I want it to get it into as many hands as humanly possible.

Michelle: But here's the thing. I knew that I couldn't do this on my own. I've done an okay job marketing the book, getting the word out. But ultimately, I am at a bottleneck because my business has gotten to a point where I have a lot of clients coming in. I'm doing great work with them, exciting work with them and frankly I don't have the time to market myself, but I do have the money to invest in bringing on people to help me spread the word of the 3 Word Rebellion.

Michelle: So that's who we're talking to today. We have Katya Varbanova here with us and she is actually a friend of the pod. She's been on before to talk about video marketing, but she is here today to chat about audience growth and what we're doing behind the scenes in my business. So Katya, thank you for being back on the podcast.

Tune into the audio:

Katya: I am so excited, this time talking about something completely different, but I know it will be fun.

Michelle: Yeah, so tell everyone a little bit about your business and your work with me and what we're scheming up right now.

Katya: Oh my God. People will be loving this, so I have been an entrepreneur for a little over four years now and I started my business through membership community. I created 20K Nation back in 2015 through a lot of video marketing myself. As I was growing that community, I ended up having over 25,000 followers in my very first year in business. Then I went on to get that to over 100,000 followers within the next couple of years and I've done that with very, very little ad spend on audience growth. And what was happening throughout the years is, I realized I was naturally really good at helping people grow their audiences and my business model is very simple.

Katya: I help people to create a business model that brings them joy while also generates them at least 20k a month consistently. I met Michelle a couple of years at another program and we met in person at an event and we started working together … I mean you joined 20K Nation back in 2017 maybe and then you were there for about a year and then last year in September you were the very first person to join my VIP option of 20K Nation, which was solely focused on getting you to 20k months with the power of very strategic video ads. We were working on the Webinar together. We were creating all the video ads to the Webinar. We were working very, very much on the book launch as well, making sure that the book itself has the best chance of being successfully published out there.

Katya: And my passion really is to really help entrepreneurs and thought leaders to spread their message in a way that feels good to them.

I am a huge advocate of people focused marketing, not the how you call it, the pro marketing and I believe that by loving your people and by actually caring for them, they will be so much easier to sell. They will be so much more receptive to the things you teach and they'll actually get results.

Katya: So we've been working in the VIP with you, Michelle, for 10 months. You are the longest standing VIP because you were the first [inaudible 00:05:27] obviously and a couple of weeks ago you mentioned to me that you were ready to outsource your entire content marketing and I said to you, well why don't I do it for you? Why don't I get my team together because I have a team of 10 people and I have a really, really good people on my team and said why don't I do the strategy and my team handles the implementation for you? We're going to do a content marketing package together and you had spoken to a couple of other people and I gave you a package that you got very excited about.

Michelle: I don't know if that's the right word. I feel like … so the thing for me is Katya sent me this proposal and I was … she had a video walkthrough, so I just was just watching the video and I'm watching this video and I felt terrified because it was … well, all of a sudden I realized that this was me stepping into the bigger version of myself and everyone listening, this had nothing to do with the cost of it. I didn't even know how much it was at this point, but I'm reading what they're going to do, and what they're taking on, and what they're responsible for. And literally, I had anxiety because I was like, oh this is future Michelle's stuff getting more visible and becoming the Michelle, I know that I want to be, and taking this 3 Word Rebellion the places it wants to go. That's terrifying and exciting, but really terrifying at first.

Katya: It's funny because it was … like you said that it wasn't necessarily about the cost, although it was the highest proposal that you got out of all the others. But the key I think for you was that you knew that you wanted to sell 5,000 books. You knew that you wanted to grow the Instagram following to 10,000 followers organically and genuinely. You already knew that, but I think the moment I showed you the proposal, it was like, okay, this is happening now and the moment you realized it's actually happening, you realized that it's different from just thinking about it.

Actually committing to doing it is different from wanting it.

Katya: And maybe it's good for people listening here on this podcast, maybe you have a wild goal right now in your business. Maybe you want to reach a certain sales goal or maybe you want to reach a certain audience growth goal and you … deep inside you really want to do it, but if you committed to it, you would actually have the same reaction and I mean, I don't know.

What got you to actually decide, okay, I am doing this. This is going to be my audience growth season and I am stepping fully in?

Michelle: That's a great question. I think early on I realized that I couldn't make this decision from present Michelle. Present Michelle, the one that's on this podcast could not make the decision to hire a marketing team that was going to help me really like build everything up and get the book where I want it to where it wants to go. It's not even like me, it's the book wants to do this too. So I had to make that decision from my future self, thinking about the Michelle who has already sold 5,000 books. The Michelle who has messaging strategists working for her to work with clients to implement the 3 Word Rebellion. Would that version of Michelle say yes to this?

Michelle: And the answer was yes. Yeah, like future Michelle is like all like woohoo, you go, you do this Michelle.

So I knew that I had to make that decision from future me, not the me right now.

Katya: So let me ask you this then. I think this can start a conversation for everybody is why are we doing this now? Let's talk about why we're doing this now, because you could have said, okay Katya, I'm going to do this but let's do it in September or let's do it in January, because maybe somebody right now is thinking to themselves, well I really need to figure out my messaging but maybe I shouldn't do it now or I should do it in three months.

So why is it now the season to grow our audience?

Michelle: I think number one it's a timing thing for me. There is a time in your business where you're just focused on, I want to get clients and that's my focus. And if you're a smaller boutique business, like I've been running my own, I don't need a whole lot. I work with 45 people a year and that's it. And no more than 45, so audience growth when I was in that season was never a focus.

Michelle: However, now that I have this book, I want to get into as many hands as possible, and now that I have a vision for my business, where I see how impactful having my messaging together, having the 3 Word Rebellion to lead with, realizing, oh my gosh, I can actually give this message to other people and they can share it and spread it. And I mean there are so many people who already are sharing and spreading it without me even asking them to. So for me, it was like, oh, if that's the vision and I have my ducks in a row, I have all … I have clients, my client roster is always at capacity, although I never say that I'm fully booked up because there's always room for more people to come in. And it was just like my messaging is on walk. I know what I want to say. It's now a season … And when you realize this, it's like I'm going to pour some gasoline on this fire because it's right at that precipice.

Michelle: The sooner you get your messaging together, then you can get to a point where it's like, oh yeah, I'm going to focus on audience growth because I know this message is awesome.

I know it's helping people. I see the impact that it makes and it's almost like selfish of me if I don't get it out there in a bigger way.

Katya: Exactly. And I think having the goal of 5,000 books is really just a beginning for you. It really is the beginning of the revolution.

But we have to start somewhere, what we focus on, we create.

Katya: So I would say also another reason why for me it was a good time to get involved now is because it is summer. Summer is one of those times where a lot of thought leaders and influencers decide to slow down. They decide to go on holiday, relax and it's a really great time to invest time, money and resources on taking that bite out of the market a little bit because they're going to be posting less content. So while everybody else is posting less, we're going to double down and post more and more quality and we're going to grab the attention over the summer so that when the time comes in September, October time, usually it's a really, really good purchasing month. It's a really good month to launch things, because everybody's like back to school mode. It's like when you're back to school mode, you're thinking, oh, back to getting serious money mode, back to getting serious business mode, launching new stuff mode. It feels like a new season for people and it's just psychological that it's really, really good time to sell and to offer our products and services.

Katya: So having the whole summer to focus on audience growth is going to make all the difference in what happens in September, which is why I actually hired Michelle to do my 3 Word Rebellion in May. This May for the same reason, because my season is audience growth as well. The whole summer and in September I'm going to do a massive 20K Nation launch for the membership and I want it to have the messaging done before I start my audience growth activities because I want to get … make sure that I get the right people. So it's kind of a really good time to both master your message and do your audience. So that's why I'm happy we're doing this now.

Michelle: Yeah, me too. Me Too. And I think for everyone listening really take away.

What season is your business in? What do you need to focus on?

Is it the audience growth? Is it the lead generation? Is it getting people to make the decision or are you in a period of rest? Because I know after any … even after like my book launch, like I needed a little bit of rest before moving on. So being very intentional and what I love is for myself. And I also see this in my clients.

Once you have that messaging down, you know the kinds of messages you need to share if you want to grow your audience or have more people have sales conversations with you so you know exactly what to do and then you can get help with it, which I'm super excited about.

Katya: Yes.

Michelle: Yeah. So do we want to talk a little bit about what we're doing behind the scenes, in some of the I like to think of audience growth as experiments because we don't know what's going to work and what won't work? So it's all one big experiment and please reframe any of your attempts, whether it's a launch or whether it's you want to grow your audience. Think about it as your undertaking an experiment to get some info about what works instead of, oh my gosh, it was a total failure if I didn't sell like $100,000.00 worth of whatever my thing is. Or it's a total failure because only a hundred people showed up to my Webinar, my challenge.

That's not really the point. It's a point to see what's going to work. Let's talk about what works or what … what we're going to try.

Katya: So one of the things I asked you before I gave you the proposal and I said, what would you want to focus on? And then you said to me, I want to focus on Instagram. I want to get my Instagram to 10,000 followers and I want to do book sales.

Katya: And then I did an audit of what you have. And of course, I know that you have the Rebel Rising Facebook group. If you guys aren't part of it, you can join over there to see what we're doing over there as well. And you have your Instagram as well. You should follow … you actually should be part of both so you can follow along.

Katya: But I noticed that those two things seem like the lowest hanging fruits to grow to start with. So we decided we're going to focus 100% and energy on growing the Instagram, growing the Instagram, repurposing the content that Michelle's already created, repurposing the content on both platforms as a group and the Instagram. And also making sure that it's all in a way that's super strategic. Making sure that it leads to more book sales, making sure it leads to more discovery and yeah, maybe it's for you to mention to the audience why you chose Instagram because you could have just said, oh I'm just gonna focus on Facebook, or oh I'm just gonna focus on something else.

Katya: But I think that was … the reason we decided to focus on Instagram technically is because that is what Michelle wanted.

So why did you want to focus on Instagram?

Michelle: Because I love Instagram. It's my favorite social media platform to hang out on. It used to be Facebook, but for some reason, Facebook is just not doing it for me these days. And it hasn't been for about a year and it's a struggle for me to show up consistently on Facebook. However, with Instagram, I love looking through the feed. I love watching Instagram stories, I love doing Instagram stories. I love the interaction you have in the direct messages from Instagram stories. If you see me on Instagram and you want to send me a message, send me a message because I will respond. I love that kind of intimacy and it just felt more … I don't know. Yeah, it feels more intimate and it's just more fun and engaging.

Michelle: So that's … Yeah, I just like it. Its more fun for me and I think for everyone. If you're going to go big with your message, choose a platform that you love. So you're not like, oh, I've got to show up on Facebook. Well, if you hate Facebook, don't go there. Go to Linkedin, go to Twitter. It doesn't matter. Just choose a social media … one social media platform and love it pretty darn hard.

Katya: Yeah, and the cool thing is once you have the business in a way set up so that you can outsource it. Even if you don't enjoy a particular platform somebody else can take over for you anyway. Somebody else can … if you know your ideal clients on Linkedin, but you don't really like using Linkedin, you can hire somebody else to manage your entire Linkedin presence.

That's the beautiful part of when you have a 3 Word Rebellion, you can be so successful that you can have the team and the people around you to help you achieve whatever it is you want to achieve. That's the favorite part of that.

Michelle: Yeah no and what's great is that I can hand off the content, the book, and I know that what you guys are going to create is going to sound like me because I mean one of my big things is I don't want anyone to notice a really big difference on my Instagram feed. It'll still be me in the stories, but the content is being repurposed but it's still my content and it will still have my voice and way of showing up. So that's super exciting because I never wanted someone to take over my social media that couldn't really … that didn't understand me or understand who I was or how I wanted to show up in the world.

Katya: It's very true. It's very true. That's definitely something that we are focused on and in terms of how we're executing it, we are doing a mixture of repurposing some of Michelle's things and then we're doing some creative writing as well. Now the reason we can do the kind of writing that I know is going to work for Michelle is one, because obviously, I've taken the time to study her brand really well so I know what she's about. But another thing also is I use a couple of tools and theories. One of them is Jungian Depth Psyhcology and I use a lot of that to craft the message that would sound like Michelle for her ideal clients using this type of psychology. So it's very easy for me to just put myself in Michelle shoes and write as Michelle without other people even knowing that.

Katya: So, but most of the things are 100% repurposed. It's really your content and we're just making sure that it's amplified. That's really the best word for it. It's your content amplified for audience growth and book sales because all I'm really changing is the call to actions. All I'm really changing is making sure that the content flows in a way that it does encourage sales. It does encourage getting into your Facebook group. It does encourage people following you on Instagram and things like that.

Katya: Michelle loves her structure. She loves everything organized and preplanned. So we have planned the next three months worth of content in advance. We literally have planned all 12 weeks of content and some of the things that are coming up content wise for you guys that you're going to be learning about is things around audience growth, things around how to turn a message that sucks into a message that sells, things like how to create urgency in to your launches. Things like how to launch your message, how to market with a soul rather than market like a bro, like a marketing dude.

Katya: There's going to be so many great things that we're going to cover, but the two main things we're also going to do, and I'll let you share more about these, but we're going to do two big campaigns.

Michelle: Yeah.

Katya: One will be a giveaway campaign, which we'll do the week of 8th of July, if depending on when you're listening to the podcast, you may just be catching it just while it's happening or just before or after, who knows, but it's happening the week of 8th of July and then we're going to do a challenge in August that is going to help people to really, really implement some of the principles into 3 Word Rebellion book and we're basically doing two massive campaigns in the summer and all the content we created are strategically surrounding that, strategically bleeding from that and leading out of that as well.

Katya: But you can share more about how you see it all coming together, what you are looking forward to and things like that.

Michelle: Yeah. I think for me, I am looking forward to the giveaway. I think that'll be really fun. So the giveaway, there's going to be a chance to win a 45-minute session with me. So you might want to follow me on Instagram and see what's going on, because I think this episode comes out on July 9th so that giveaway will be going on and we're giving away signed copies of the book and a Rebel Rising mug. So it's just going to be really fun and interactive and I'm kind of excited to see just who shows up and who I get to meet and interact with.

Michelle: And then I am looking forward to the challenge too. I'll be honest, I don't know what it's going to look like yet people because I need to go and reread my book. It's been since January, since I read my book last, because when you write your book, you read your book like a million times before it's released and then you're kind of over it. So I'm going to be rereading the book and creating a challenge that really gets you ready to step into the kind of leadership and mindset that your 3 Word Rebellion requires and gets you active in sharing your message, I think are my big goals right now. Although that might change. We'll see as I start reading the book, but I think that'll be fun too.

Michelle: I love the interaction that comes from challenges. It's really, for me, it's about the … it's about meeting people and interacting with them, and I think that'll be super fun. I'm excited about it.

Katya: Yeah.

And you know what I love about your 3 Word Rebellion, is that because you have nailed down to one thing you're focusing on, you just now, every single time you create something new, you don't really have to reinvent the wheel. All you got to do is open a book and create just a new experience to deliver the one thing.

Michelle: Yes.

Katya: So it's one thing, different experiences, and all you're doing is you're not reinventing the wheel or creating brand new content.

All you're doing is creating new experiences that deliver the same content in different ways, for different learning styles, for different preferences, which means you get to really touch millions of people with the same message in millions of ways.

So it's why I believe in it so much. I mean it's why I am a client of the 3 Word Rebellion intensive as well.

Michelle: Yeah. Well, and one thing, because I can hear like somebody's objection coming up in their head of like, oh, but if I share the same thing over and over again, will people get bored with it? I am asked that question all the time. I did a whole episode about Brené Brown and consistency. And the point of any kind of messaging work, but the point of the 3 Word Rebellion is to get you radically consistent with your message so that people know exactly what you do and who you are.

Michelle: And I know for me, I've gone to a few events lately where people have ran up to me and pointed and be like, you are the 3 Word Rebellion girl. And I'm like, yes. And then their friend says, oh, what's the 3 Word Rebellion? And the other person just tells them and I don't have to do anything. And it's amazing when you kind of see that happening.

People know instantly what you're about, and what you stand for, and the work that you do in the world.

Michelle: And so I think that's for me the power of it and it's also letting me go bigger with this message and get the help to really do it because I can't sell those 5,000 books on my own. It's not going to happen. Everyone, just with 100% transparency, I think I'm at almost 800 books right now and that's just with me with marketing, which is awesome. 800 books is amazing, but if I really want to reach that goal of 5,000 I'm going to need to do things differently.

Katya: And that's what we're doing. We're doing things very differently. We're going to spend a couple of weeks probably on experimenting to see, we are doing really strategic posting, we're focusing on a long-form type of content. So all the posts were going to be posting on Instagram will have something that you can learn. They'll be long-form, they'll be educational, but they'll also be encouraging engagement. We're gonna be doing very strategic hashtagging. We're going to be doing very strategic stories. We're going to be doing very strategic tagging and then we're going to be doing very strategic call to action.

Katya: Basically, every single step, when you step into Michelle's Instagram account, we are going to make it so obvious that is impossible for people to not see the opportunity to either buy her book, or follow her, or to book a discovery call with her. Really that is truly the goal.

Katya: And I said to Michelle that we have different levels of our content marketing systems packages. And I said to her from the beginning, I said, Michelle, we're gonna start with this one and we're going to do so well the first three months that after the three months you're going to want to go on the biggest one. And she's like, oh my God, it's so scary. But I'm so excited.

Katya: So we are, I guess going out of her comfort zone and we are creating things in a way that … There's this quote that says if you do what most people wouldn't do, you would have what most people can't have.

So we are doing the things that 99% of Michelle's competitors wouldn't do. So that Michele can have the kind of impact that 90% of the people in the industry will never have.

Katya: So that is really, we are … this will be the ultimate advantage of the 3 Word Rebellion brand. This will be the ultimate advantage for the people following the 3 Word Rebellion brand. It's actually a very exciting time. If you're listening to this podcast, you might be listening to a little piece of history because I feel like we're going to be listening to this podcast in three months, six months, a year from now. And it's going to be like, remember that time when we were planning the world domination and now we're living the world domination.

Michelle: We'll have to do an update episode.

Katya: We have to do … we should do an update every quarter or something like that. A quarterly marketing update with the 3 Word Rebellion by Michelle Mazur.

Michelle: Yeah. Well and I always appreciate when people give me peaks inside their business and what they're doing and what they're trying to get to the next level. So yeah, I think that's an awesome idea.

Michelle: Well, any last final thoughts Katya, before we wrap things up?

Katya: Let's do a final quick round of dos and don'ts.

Things we're doing, things we're not, and then we summarize and then we get going. So I'm going to … let me give … here's a couple of things we are doing.

Katya: We are going to be paying close attention to imagery. We want to make sure we have good quality content images that are going to grab attention, that are going to be on brand, on point. So that's going to be a huge focus for us. Another thing we're going to focus on is, we're going to be focusing on making sure the content is polished but imperfect.

Katya: One of the things that Michelle said to me, I don't want to have one of these perfect looking feeds that is like, wow, if I touch it, it will break. That's not what I'm about. And technically, technically Michelle's inner … the inner Michelle really, really, really wants a perfect feed, but the practical Michelle knows that a perfect feed is going to be more of a nuisance than a help. So she's reached a point where she's just like polished but imperfect.

Michelle: Yes.

Katya: So that's what we're going to do. Another thing we're also going to do is we're going to be doing it all in a way where we are creating content assets that Michelle can reuse over and over again. So the way that we're structuring the content systems in the backend, we're using Asana project management tool and in there we are writing all the content in a way that a year from now Michelle can go in it and see, okay, I want to post something today. Let me reuse some of the things I posted last year that are still valuable, that are still applicable, that are basically evergreen pieces of content.

Michelle: Yup.

Katya: So we're doing it in a way that you can reuse it over and over again. We will be also focusing on making sure that people feel part of the process. Like I am big on, I'm a huge believer that if people feel part of your journey, they will enroll with you on the journey. They will enroll others into your journey and they will themselves become clients of the journey. So we're going to be sharing a lot of the journey and those are some of my dos. I don't know if you want to add some dos?

Michelle: No, I think those are all spot on for … Well, I mean she and I have spent a lot of time talking about these dos by the way.

Katya: I know we did. So you share some of the don'ts, some of the stuff we're not doing and then we can wrap it up.

Michelle: Yeah, I mean we're not focusing on 20 billion platforms. We're really focused on Instagram and the Rebel Rising Facebook group, which you can join here, just going to put that shout out there.

Michelle: So that's … we're not doing that. What else aren't we doing? We're not doing any bro kind of sleazy marketing. This isn't about six figures in six seconds or any of that.

Michelle: It's all about intimacy, making a connection with other people. So none of that. And honestly, we're not changing things up. We're just amplifying it. I think we did a great job because I don't want to change how I'm showing up. It's working. It's just I want that amplification. I want to be able to serve and help more people. So those are some of my don'ts and dos kind of mixed.

Katya: No, no there … it was spot on. I actually, I have to say, I really love working … what you just described, where you said, I just want to amplify what's already working. It's pretty much my dream of who I love working with. I don't … I've worked with a lot of people in the past that they've been in periods of really, really big struggle and then we have to work on short term recovery and that's amazing as well. But this is … this really the work that really brings me the most joy when somebody already has something that's working and we're amplifying it for a bigger impact.

Katya: So yes, we will be making more impact. Yes, I do expect you, Michelle and your business to generate more revenue, of course as well. I do expect that you will sell more books. I do expect that you will have more people recognizing you and I don't expect of … I don't expect for people … I don't expect people to see a different Michelle in so far, however, I will say I do expect people to see more of not perfectionist, Michelle. I expect people to see them all wrong, Michelle, because I really love the raw Michelle and I'd like to think that I can bring more of that out as well. The more vulnerable, authentic. You are always authentic anyway.

Katya: I want the no filter, no BS Michelle that says it as it is, tells the truth and doesn't care about well other people think about the truth because it is a truth. So I do love that Michelle, I'll be honest. So yeah, that's it really. I think I'm good. I do want to make sure everyone's following you on Instagram though. So go do that now.

Michelle: Yeah, follow me there. Send me a DM, I would love to know what your biggest takeaway for yourself was from this episode. If you're going to implement anything we talked about. So follow me, I'm @DrMichelleMazur. We will be doing an update episode in the future to let you know how our grand experiment is going. So thank you so much, Katya, for being on the show today.

Katya: Thank you so much for having me. Final thing. If you guys have any … because you guys have been following the podcast and Michelle for so long, if you have any particular ideas for how we can amplify Michelle's Instagram account, or if you want to help somehow, maybe you want to give some shout outs or something like that, message me on @livestreamKatya on Instagram, because I would love to hear some of your ideas as well if you have any.

Just drop me a DM. Say, hey I listen to the podcast and I have an idea for amplifying Michelle's account. Here it is. And then I can pass that over to the team and I'll see if it's something we want to implement. Because I do want to make sure that you guys listening to the podcast are equally as involved. We're not trying to take over Michelle and not listen to any of your thoughts. We want your thoughts better than … more than you know. So I just wanted to mention that before I go. So thanks for having me.

Michelle: You are so welcome. I'm so excited for what's next.

Katya: Me Too.