Make Marketing Suck Less

Ep. 366: PRACTITIONER VS. MARKETER: A JOURNEY TO MAKING MARKETING SUCK LESS WITH ELISE ENRIQUEZ

Elise Enriquez [00:00:00]: It was such a detour to go that whole social media, build a course, webinars, free webinars, pitch, cart closed, like, that whole thing was such a detour for me. And, like I said, it seriously tanked my business.

Michelle Mazur [00:00:22]: Welcome to Make Marketing Suck Less. The podcast that knows marketing is freaking hard, especially when you're a solo business owner trying to juggle it all. I'm your host, Dr. Michelle Mazur, author of the 3 Word Rebellion and founder of the Expert Up Club. Forget the latest marketing fads and tactics promising social media stardom. I'm here with research-backed strategies to help you clarify your message and get twice as effective with your marketing. And while I can't promise you'll ever love marketing, I'm here. to make you hate it a tiny bit less.

Michelle Mazur [00:01:02]: This summer on the podcast, we are going behind the scenes of expertise driven businesses just like yours to unpack why marketing sucks and how these business owners adjusted course to make marketing suck less. If you ever bought into the idea that you should stop trading dollars for hours and just create a course or a membership or a group program and then struggled to fill that program and make it work for your business, I want you to know two things. Number one, you are not alone.

Michelle Mazur [00:01:41]: So many business owners have gone down this path only to realize, “Hey. This isn't for me!” And number two, you'll want to hear Elise Enriquez's story about how she recovered from making this exact same strategic misstep and how she's adjusted course and, finally, what she's letting go of in her marketing to make it easier for her and make it more effective. Before we dive in a little bit about Elise, she is a productivity coach who helps business owners and their teams make the shift from overwhelm to taking back control of their time. Elise is your guide for discovering and doing what matters so you and your team can progress to the next achievement and enjoy the ride along the way. So I hope you enjoy this conversation, and I'll see you at the end to wrap it up and share my takeaways. Welcome, Elise, to the Make Marketing Suck Less podcast. I am thrilled to have you talking about how you are making your own marketing suck less.

Elise Enriquez [00:03:01]: I am honored to be here. So thanks for having me.

Michelle Mazur [00:03:03]: You are so welcome. So in the past, what has sucked about marketing for your business?

Elise Enriquez [00:03:12]: Kind of everything. It went in phases. So I don't know if everybody else out there, but it went in phases of, like, networking groups was, like, the first thing that sucked for me was, like, trying to figure out how to even just get my business up and running. So this would have been. 15 years ago. And just figuring out, like, how to be out in the world kind of networking in a way that felt right to me. And as I figured that out, which some of that was just to not do so much of it, but then it became online marketing. And that's when it got even harder because the in person stuff felt more natural to me.

Elise Enriquez [00:03:52]: I'm relational, and I like to know about people. And so to have this form of marketing where I felt like I'm sending messages out into the ether and I didn't know if it was landing. I didn't know if it was helpful because that's the biggest thing for me is like if nothing else, hopefully whatever I put out there was helpful even if it's not creating a response, right? Like, obviously, for my business, I'd love for it to create a response. So there was just that feeling of like, you can't always know if what you're doing is impactful because I would, down the road, get somebody who'd, like, been on my email list for years and then say they wanna work with me. I'm, like, it's been years of hearing nothing from this person. I'm, like, wait, you're on my list already? You know, it's like, what? You know? But then all of a sudden, they're like, yes, let's work together. And they, like, hire me for a year.

Elise Enriquez [00:04:42]: It was just it all just felt very confusing. Like, I didn't know what to do to create the conversations that would lead to what I was trying to create. So there's just that part of it, but also just like then all of the flashy, boss babe, kind of should out there of how what success is supposed to be in the online marketing space, and I fell for it hook line and sinker. And it caused my business to tank. And it was extremely confusing and frustrating and demoralizing, to be honest,to follow the shiny path that all these boss babes were painting, saying that that's how to do it. And it wasn't true for me.

Michelle Mazur [00:05:29]: So what were the decisions that you were making that led you on the boss babe path? What did you decide to do differently because you saw how others were telling you how to market?

Elise Enriquez [00:05:43]: So one of the things that had happened in the past, now, I guess it would be 7, 8 years, is that I created a program called GYST. Get your stuff together, we'll just say. Get your stuff together. And it was something that I created in a group format on accident and then realized, oh, this is a thing. This is an offering, and I started charging for it and all the stuff. So all that's happening. And then, you know, suddenly, certain people floated into my vision talking about turning it into a course and selling it while you sleep.

Elise Enriquez [00:06:14]: And, you know, doing all of that and and going down this whole path of investing then in their program for me to create this course. Right? Then I didn't know how to sell. Right? So it's like, great. I have this course and you're telling me to do, you know, all of these webinars with all of these cart close pressure, high pressure sales tactics that one, don't work for me. And two, what I've come to realize thanks to you is and is that we're on the tail end of all of that. Online marketing is different now. I caught the end of a wave. And it was an end of the wave that that could have been very exciting, possibly.

Elise Enriquez [00:06:53]: But really when it got down to it, it pulled me out of the practitioner role and into a marketing role. And I really like being a practitioner. And I'm okay with playing wearing a marketing hat sometimes, but I want to be wearing a practitioner hat more often than not. And so that's a distinction that's been kind of surfacing for me because of my involvement in the Expert Up Club is this idea that I wanna make the donuts. I don't wanna own a donut chain. I wanna make the donuts and I wanna have enough customers come in and buy the donuts on a daily basis and I get to see their faces and see them enjoy those donuts. Right? So I have to do some marketing, but I don't want my job to be marketing because my job is to be a productivity coach. And that's what I love love love to do.

Michelle Mazur [00:07:38]: Well and I think you're making a really good point is asking yourself, like, what kind of role do I wanna have in my business? Because what I have found that these online marketers don't do well is tell you, like, hey. If you're gonna have a course, if you're gonna have a membership, a community, like, your focus needs to be building an audience, and your focus needs to be on marketing. So the primary function of what you do changes from practitioner, you know, help making the doughnuts, helping people, become more productive and get their shit together and get what matters most to them done, to, like, okay. How do I market this thing so that I'm building the audience so that when it's time, I have enough to fill the course.

Elise Enriquez [00:08:32]: And it's a large audience that's required. It's a large audience. And I had never have never had the I mean, in all my 15 years, I've never been somebody that has been good at list building. Like, it's never even been appealing to me. Like, I never really had, the freebie or anything that I was even excited to promote. I was let's just hop on a call and trust me. This is gonna be fine. You know, that kind of thing.

Elise Enriquez [00:08:58]: So it was like to think that I was gonna go from such a personal style of selling, you know, I got to call it that right of selling to like mass marketing to try to get, you know, thousands on my list to try to get maybe, like, a 100 or so to sign up in that round to get, you know, and who knows about, you know, turnover and churn and all that kind of stuff. I was just like, that is not the game I wanna play. And it was, so can we talk like inside scoop? So I'm full disclosure, I'm a member of the Expert Up Club, which you've all had to have heard about by now. And so we did a retreat. So, Michelle, you did the retreat.

Elise Enriquez [00:09:45]: And we had these amazing hot seat sessions. And this is where I got the splash of cold water in my face because you and, another member were talking about how if you want to have this kind of community that's going to, support me from an income perspective. Like, if I if it's gonna be big enough, I'm going to have to be a marketer. And I resisted it. It took a month or so before it really sunk in and I really accepted it. But once I did, I was like, oh, yeah. You've been showing this to us the whole time because you have the GEO Framework. Right? How much growth do I really wanna do with my audience? How do I wanna engage? When do I offer?

Michelle Mazur [00:10:34]: Michelle here. I just wanted to pop in really fast and tell you about the GEO Framework Elise just referenced. It is the framework we use inside the Expert Up Club that describes the 3 jobs marketing does for your business. Job number one is to grow your audience and build your brand awareness. Job number two is to engage and nurture your audience to get them ready for the work you do. And job number three is to make offers and invite people into your sales process. If you wanna know more about GEO, go check out the show notes, and we'll hook you up with an explanation from another podcast.

Elise Enriquez [00:11:26]: This is not lining up. My framework is not lining up. My business model is not lining up with who I wanna be, how I wanna show up, and how much time I wanna spend on my marketing. Because I'm just not the social media marketer. I just I just am not. And I finally accepted that. I felt so freaking good to accept that.

Michelle Mazur [00:11:53]: So you've had this epiphany during the retreat in Palm Springs that you didn’t want to be a marketer. So what decisions did you start making to really start to change the role in your business and also change how you were marketing?

Elise Enriquez [00:12:11]: It was really interesting because I think immediately. I think it was at the retreat where I was like, so y'all, can I just stop including social media in my marketing plan? And everybody was like, Yes. Because over time, what what I came to realize is, like, I actually I love working with teams. I love working with leaders and their teams and helping them implement the GYST model into their into their business and into their culture, like make a culture shift for them and how they operate. My ideal clients are not on on Instagram and Facebook. And if they are, they are not looking for a coach at that time. They are, like, freaking checking out.

Elise Enriquez [00:12:54]: Right? They are exhausted and they are looking at. You and I do dog and cat videos. So that's what they're doing. LinkedIn might be different and maybe I'll explore that. But for now, removing social media from my marketing plan. That doesn't mean I don't ever post on social media as my business. If I feel like it, I do. Or I'll drop a new episode of the podcast, , especially if I have a guest on the podcast or if I'm a guesting on podcast.

Elise Enriquez [00:13:22]: I wanna do the things that I say I'll do to promote an episode, you know, for any guest or if I'm guesting. But that's not really my marketing plan. I'm just following through on on some commitments I've made. So I have really removed it from my marketing plan and I'm working on shifting more toward showing up with other people's audiences so that they get a real taste of how I operate and what I do and how I can support them. So that's turned into speaking gigs. So I've been booking speaking gigs. It's like as soon as I made this decision the universe, like, okay. Here you go, lady.

Elise Enriquez [00:13:57]: Here it is. All of a sudden, I have four lined up. Two of them are super ideal because they're more like panel discussions, but then also just getting on other people's podcasts too. So being able to say, no, I'm gonna make a concerted effort to guest more, because I love a conversational format. I love that so much better than I love presenting.

Michelle Mazur [00:14:18]: And there's a few things I just wanna pull out for the audience. You know, you made the decision to get off of social media. It was also were you like you weren't getting any clients from social media?

Elise Enriquez [00:14:30]: No. None. Even the speaking gig I got recently was because it was a former client, and they referred me or they referred me and they found my podcast and listened to my podcast. And then they're like when we had our initial conversation, they were quoting podcast episodes. “Remember in episode 107 when you said…” No, I don't remember that!

Elise Enriquez [00:14:59]: Oh my gosh. This is crazy. Right? But it's but even with that, that was because I started treating my podcast as an engaged tool. Right? I need the part of the GEO framework, like you've taught us. So I started treating everything differently that I was already doing. Right? So stuff that I could do things differently, I could edit out social media and I wasn't getting clients from social media.

Michelle Mazur [00:15:24]: Well, and what's interesting is like you were like, alright, I'm not gonna do social media, but I need another way to grow my audience, grow my brand awareness. And so you replaced that strategy, that tactic with, okay. I'm gonna borrow other people's audiences. I'm gonna start speaking. I'm gonna go guest on podcasts. I think that's a mistake some people make when they think about their marketing. They're like, “alright, I'm just gonna ditch social media”, but then they're not doing anything to build their like, build the brand awareness, get in front of new people.

Michelle Mazur [00:16:01]: Let's take a quick break, and we'll be right back. Ready to do less marketing while creating more interest than ever before in the work you do? Take this free email based course, market like an expert. It's a 7 day crash course to create a do less but better marketing strategy that creates more demand for your offers and your expertise while marketing less.

You'll get 7 emails delivered right to your inbox that take you through the process to right size your marketing. So you're only focused on marketing that actually works for your business, your bottom line, and your sanity. Sign up at drmichellemazur.com/mle. That's the letter M L E, or open up your podcast app and tap on the link for market like an expert. Now back to the show.

Elise Enriquez [00:17:04]: It was tempting to just ditch it. Don't get me wrong because it felt so good. And then, I don't know if you remember, but I went on vacation. I already had this pre planned 2 week vacation. And I was coming off of our retreat and then that was in February. In March everything was finally sinking in and I was making these decisions. And it was also because the Expert Up Club, you have guest speakers. You have guest experts come in. You had a guest expert come in who talked about traffic marketing versus relationship marketing.

Michelle Mazur [00:17:36]: Yes. Michelle Warner. We will link her website, too.

Elise Enriquez [00:17:41]: All of these seeds you had been planting. All along in the Expert Up Club. It was like she dumped some water and fertilizer on it because they were, like, ready to sprout. All of this is about to come together. And so I just love that you bring in outside voices. And I feel like that's a thing that people can be hesitant to do because they worry about competition. Because you and Michelle operate in the same a very similar space.

Elise Enriquez [00:18:09]: But you don't treat things that way. You know, the people are going to work with you if they want to work with you. Right? So let me just give you kudos on that. So you bring in this expert and that made everything kind of just fall in place for me about like, oh, yeah, ditch social media, but what if I'm gonna take a more relational approach, relationship approach to my marketing, what does that actually look like? Now, what does that mean with the GEO framework? So like all of your 2 frameworks like worked so well together that it just clicked in a way that I was like, okay, I need to figure out still what my grow mechanisms are going to be and do it in a way that's sustainable. I mean, that's always with my clients over the past 15 years. I always talk about it's one thing to put new habits in place. It's one thing to take a new approach to things.

Elise Enriquez [00:18:54]: But if it's not sustainable, then why are you doing it? Like, there's sometimes where we do something for a season, but if you're talking about you want this growth to last or you want this success to last, you can't have it exhaust you and wear you out and you can't have it be something that feels like taking medicine. Right? What are those growth strategies for me that don't feel like taking medicine, And so showing up and being on a panel, you know, in front of, like, somebody else's audience showing up and, you know, if I have to, I'll do a keynote. But even then I'm like, let me facilitate a discussion instead. Facilitate a discovery. Let me go be on your podcast and talk about something that will help your audience. Yes. All of those things feel like fun to me. They feel like sure, it can be work to prep for it. Sometimes it's travel, whatever it might be. But, overall, it's going to give me more energy than it's going to drain from me to do those activities.

Michelle Mazur [00:19:51]: And that's the thing that makes marketing suck less. When you are doing things that actually give you energy to grow your audience or build your brand awareness, then it's like, “Oh, I don't mind doing it because it doesn't feel like a slog.” And I think that's the thing. It's like we've always been presented with this, like, “there's one right way to market your business, and I have the secret!” That's just not true. There's a lot of right ways and we have to figure out what that looks like for us.

Elise Enriquez [00:20:30]: And I think that that's what I appreciate about being in the Expert Up Club is one, I get to see even if I wasn't for everybody that's just like a dedicated podcast listener. If you just are watching Michelle, you're seeing that she experiments. So you experiment. And I think that that's what is impressive. You're not saying this thing worked, and it's gonna work forever. You're paying attention and saying this thing's not working as well. What should I do? What went wrong? How do I change that? And that's the atmosphere in the Expert Up Club too. It's like everybody's trying something different.

Elise Enriquez [00:21:00]: You're not saying everybody must do this. You're saying, here's a broader framework. Let's find your way of doing these things within this framework. Like, so how are you going to grow your audience? How are you going to engage them? And what are you going to offer? And how are you going to offer? But we all have different businesses. We're all going to do it differently. I mean, we even have, like, a separate little B2B Chort in the Expert Up Club because we realize there's enough of us that aren't doing traffic marketing. There was a group of us that needed it to be doing more relationship marketing and who don't need hundreds of clients a year, who need maybe 10 to 30 clients a year, and that's totally different approach. And so, I wouldn't have figured that out had I not been I seriously would not figure it out had I not been the Expert Up Club.

Elise Enriquez [00:21:51]: I would like I told you on the sly, so I'll just say it on the recording as like best investment I've made in my business. And I've been in business for 15 years. I'm not even kidding. Just to have the peace of mind about how I spend my time and not be agonizing about what I'm not doing that everybody says I should be doing. It's like, “No, I shouldn't be doing that. That doesn't fit my business model”. Like that kind of and that's basic. When you think about it, like, hopefully, we'd all be operating that way, but we don't because we're excited about what we're doing, and everybody's telling us what we should do instead of helping us figure out what we should do. And I feel like that's what we do in the Expert Up Cub is we figure out what we should do.

Michelle Mazur [00:22:31]: So now you've made all of these decisions that is definitely making your marketing suck less. So how is your business changing, and how do you feel now that you've made these changes?

Elise Enriquez [00:22:46]: It's so weird because it's not like because I made these changes, like, people are beating down the door to work with me. It's like these little shifts have happened whether it's like an existing client. It's like, but we wanna keep working with you. And I'm like, oh, okay. So instead of having to go find a new client, I'm retaining a client. I think that the way I'm showing up is different because I'm not like and I've never had an, I don't think I've ever dealt with anybody in a way where I'm like, okay. Now you're done. Like, we did this work and now you're done and I'm gonna move on to this person. I don't think I've ever had that vibe ever.

Elise Enriquez [00:23:19]: I've had plenty of long term clients. But there was something I think there was something different in my energy that showed up because I was just more relaxed and more focused on them and their problem and I got to be just more engaged with the clients that I had, which is leading to more retention. And because I got clear about wanting to bring teams through my GYST program as a major focus, an existing client that was just a 1x1 client who has a team, we've been working on him bringing it, like, basically promoting one of his people to COO. So now I'm working with that person and now he wants to bring his team through GYST. Right? And so in the fall, we'll be doing that. So some of it has just been existing clients, but then the other part of it has been, like I said, these, like, speaking engagements and just, like, pitching to be on podcasts just it feels better and that that's just popping now. Right? It almost like this shift in me energetically, obviously through clarity through understanding through experimenting, right, but like, it's changed my energy in a way that I feel like I'm attracting the right people and connections to do this the way I really wanna do it.

Michelle Mazur [00:24:30]: And I think what I'm finding interesting is that we often think we have to go out and find new clients. Like, that's the work. Like, that's what marketing is supposed to do. And sometimes it's really that retention and having our clients be the focus and being able to go deeper into the organization, especially if you're in the B2B space. Because that means you actually have to do less marketing because while you're delivering the work, you are building the relationships that lead to more work. And that becomes marketing in and of itself, which is a very strange thing to say.

Elise Enriquez [00:25:10]: It's so weird. It's so weird. But that's that happened at the retreat. One of our fellow members was talking about that, about how she's going in and she's going and solving a problem and that leads them to see her capacity for solving these other problems. And I was just like, oh, that's so cool. Like, I wanna be able to do that. And I was like and then it started happening.

Elise Enriquez [00:25:29]: Because it's like with what I do with GYST, it's like we're putting really simple systems in place. It's not about this the system per se. The model is the model. It's whatever. It's great. I mean, I'm probably underselling it right now, but what I'm what I'm trying to get at is that because we're in a group setting with an intact work teams, it's the conversations that happen. It's the other things that they reveal that help them see that they wanna do better and be different, And then they're able to see that I'm able to facilitate those conversations and we can make that happen. It just so it became this energetic shift when I didn't have the weight of, oh my gosh, did I post enough on social media this week? And what do I say? And did anybody respond? Oh my god.

Elise Enriquez [00:26:07]: Nobody responded on my social media post You're like it's just like having all of that weight, like, fall away. And it's given me I've had this, like, kind of attitude of, like, yeah, it's gonna be fine. Like, when it was when it was all the social media when it was all the traffic marketing kind of stuff, it just was so stressful to me and it felt so unknown where this feels closer because it is more relational. Everything that I'm doing just kinda feels closer to me as a person and getting to be how I wanna be then I'm like, yeah, this is all gonna be fine. Like, it doesn't mean I'm not taking intentional action. Doesn't mean I'm not following up. Like, I'm doing all of that, but it's it feels like I'm doing it in a way that feels right to me.

Michelle Mazur [00:26:48]: And you've, like, moved I'm thinking about, like, the locus of control. Right? Like, we can't control whether or not a client says yes to us, if somebody wants to have a consult. We can't control any of that, but it feels more out of our control when we're doing traffic marketing, social media, like, blasts of information and hoping that the algorithm shines on us that day. And maybe the right person sees what we wrote and comments and starts a conversation that actually leads somewhere. Whereas if you're like in it day to day, building relationships, actually having conversations with people. That is so powerful. In some ways, I understand why we're taught all these social media strategies because it's, like, easy and you can teach it and it's easy to sell. Whereas, really, figuring out, like, oh, right, how am I building these relationships in a way that feels good to me? That's not teachable in some way.

Elise Enriquez [00:27:53]: Well, and it's like, what business model do I really wanna operate off of? Like, do I really want it to be a course and I'm only interacting with these people some of the time, and I'm not you know what I mean? It's like and part and being part of the Expert Up Club, it's like I already had my own community, but it changed the way I engage with my community and made it was like, yeah, I want this. I like that we have a group of people that convene on a regular basis and that we're all working together. I like running something. II like creating that space for us. And I like participating in it in the Expert Up Club. Right? Like, it has I didn't know that I needed a community because I tend to be able to hide in a community. Like, so I always thought I needed 1x1. And you and I worked together 1 on 1 and we did great things together and we actually have done so much more through my work in the community.

Elise Enriquez [00:28:42]: It seems which seems so weird to me. It seems so counterintuitive to how I've always operated. I wanna make sure I mention two more things. One is relational marketing was how I built my business to begin with. So it was such a detour. It was such a detour to go and go that whole social media, build a course, webinars, free webinars, pitch, you know, cart close. Like, that whole thing was such a detour for me. And like I said, it tanked it literally tanked my or seriously tanked my business.

Elise Enriquez [00:29:18]: The other thing I forgot to mention the other decision I made after the retreat and as things were kind of clicking in was, like, to not send a weekly newsletter anymore. Because it wasn't generating conversation engagement at all. And I'm probably going to go back to maybe doing something monthly because I want part of it because I wanna promote other people's stuff. Because I get excited about other people. But also part of it is like, hey. here's what we're doing in GYST right now. If anybody wants to participate in that. Right? And so I'm still I'm letting that kick around, but the to release that pressure of, like, this weekly publication when I don't love writing is like that was another, like, big relief for me.

Michelle Mazur [00:30:02]: I love it. Any final thoughts about making your marketing suck less that you would like to leave the listener with?

Elise Enriquez [00:30:09]: I think that it would be to say that it's kind of circling back to what I said about how surprised I am about how much progress I've made in a community setting because I was not expecting that because I didn't join the club right away. I hired you first 1x1, I skipped the first round and then I was like, I don't know, I just feel like I need to be in this, right? And it's watching everybody else and being able to support other people, but also being able to, like, put something out there in the community and have them respond to it and support me too. It feels like a really safe space to try things. And I think that that's what we all need to do as business owners, especially when it comes to marketing, is to try things because some things aren't going to work forever and some things aren't working right now and the numbers might be working, but in your soul, you're dying. So that's where it's like I feel like it's our place, like, the Expert Up Club is are is our safe little laboratory where we all put on our white coats and we all take a look at things with a little bit of distance and perspective, so that we can make better choices about what we're doing in our business.

Michelle Mazur [00:31:11]: I love it. How can people connect with you, Elise, if they want to after this fabulous interview?

Elise Enriquez [00:31:19]: I do have a podcast called The Productivity Shift, and that's where you can get a feel for what I'm really like. And even though I'm not super active on Instagram, that's the only place that I'm very active at all as a business owner. So you you could go there if you want to. But my podcast is the best place to really get to know me.

Michelle Mazur [00:31:35]: Everyone check out The Productivity Shift and thank you, Elise, for coming in here and being so vulnerable and sharing how marketing sucked and how you're making it suck less now.

Elise Enriquez [00:31:47]: Way less. Thank you.

Michelle Mazur [00:31:49]: What an excellent conversation. I really appreciate Elise's openness about her missteps and her vulnerability around how creating a course almost tanked her business. So I have three key takeaways for you to take back into your business. The first is, what role do you want to play in your business? I loved it when Elise made the distinction between being a practitioner or a marketer. And if you're going to have a more leveraged offer like a course, your number one role is going to be marketer. You are going to spend less time practicing the craft that you've developed for years. Takeaway number two, make sure your nurturing content is bingeable. I don't think we do enough to make sure that the content that we are creating that is designed to make people want to work with us is easy for other people to consume.

Michelle Mazur [00:33:04]: Because I remember when I first started working with Elise, her podcast was very much an interview forum, letting other experts, including me, shine. But then after we worked together, she's like, oh, I need to do more solo shows so people can see my expertise and get ready for the work I do. And then after she made that switch, all of a sudden, she had clients showing up to work with her because of the podcast. So whether you are a podcaster, a video creator, or a blogger, how can you position your content in a way so that it is bingeable and people will nurture themselves pretty much and then be ready for the work you do. And then the final takeaway is don't be afraid to ditch marketing that doesn't work. Remember, Elise stopped posting on Instagram, marketing on Instagram, and she also scaled way back on emailing her list. But what's really interesting, especially with Instagram, is that she replaced it with something else that does the same job and probably does the same job better for growing her audience. So the goal is to make sure your marketing aligns with your business model and the work you want to be doing as a business owner because that's the key to making your business work and making your marketing suck less.

Michelle Mazur [00:34:46]: If the Make Marketing Suck Less pod is making your marketing more effective so that your clients can find and hire you, please share the show with a friend. The easiest way to do that is through pod link. You can find the show at pod.link/rebel, and that page will allow anyone you share the show with to subscribe and start listening in their favorite podcast player.

That's pod.link/rebel.

The Make Marketing Suck Less podcast is a production of Communication Rebel. Our production coordinator is Jessica Gulley-Ward. The podcast is edited by Steven Mills, our executive producer is me, Dr. Michelle Mazur.

The make marketing suck less podcast is recorded on the unseated traditional lands of the coast salish peoples, specifically the first people of Seattle, the Duwamish people, original stewards of the land, past, and present.